The Mystery frame from Tunaball3

[smeek]

Considering how my round 2 cheater functions in my intelliframe without any return aids, I think the emag magnets attracting to the frame screw will be more than enough for return with a cheater.

My cheater is fast as hell and I'm not getting any short strokes.

[kwood]

I know... I thought I read somewhere about using both for trigger return in cyber's kit. The prototype was setup that way, I believe. The Cheater setup can't use a mag mod, only the top trigger magnets.

EDIT: although I forgot that Zap added the return spring.

i like the idea of fabricating up a plate to mount the magnet mod

[zondo]

Considering how my round 2 cheater functions in my intelliframe without any return aids, I think the emag magnets attracting to the frame screw will be more than enough for return with a cheater.

My cheater is fast as hell and I'm not getting any short strokes.

Yeah, after playing around with my Cheater a little more, I feel like the only thing that really needs to be adjusted is the upper trigger stop. The trigger rod travel to fire is pretty small. I guess I that would diminish the effect that magnets would have on the return if the distance between the magnets was too far.

Meh, that's what I get for thinking out loud...

[kwood]

Yeah, after playing around with my Cheater a little more, I feel like the only thing that really needs to be adjusted is the upper trigger stop. The trigger rod travel to fire is pretty small.

Meh, that's what I get for thinking out loud...

so you have used both the cheater and the cyber kit
which do you like best?
best performance that is...

[zondo]

so you have used both the cheater and the cyber kit
which do you like best?
best performance that is...

I haven't had a chance to use the Cheater in the M-90 (ran out of air). I have a video in the pneumag pic thread of it in my Iframe. Out of the box (so to speak) I like the Cheater set up. But I haven't really set up my trigger stops to their final spots and I'm still playing around with the trigger rod length in my Cyber kit.

I think the Cheater has the shorter pull length though.

[smeek]

Yeah, after playing around with my Cheater a little more, I feel like the only thing that really needs to be adjusted is the upper trigger stop. The trigger rod travel to fire is pretty small. I guess I that would diminish the effect that magnets would have on the return if the distance between the magnets was too far.

Meh, that's what I get for thinking out loud...

I still need to get an M90 so you know more than I know with this setup. I was replying more to cougar than you.

Of course as soon as I say I'm not getting short strokes... but now I'm out of air so I'm blaming needing oil and low air now.

What LPR are you using? I picked up an Evil LPR off ebay for cheap but thinking of changing that to a micro rock not sure I trust this one.

[zondo]

I still need to get an M90 so you know more than I know with this setup. I was replying more to cougar than you.

Of course as soon as I say I'm not getting short strokes... but now I'm out of air so I'm blaming needing oil and low air now.

What LPR are you using? I picked up an Evil LPR off ebay for cheap but thinking of changing that to a micro rock not sure I trust this one.

I'm using a tickler... I think Shirow is using a micro rock.

[Loguzzzzzz]

I explained this to zondo the day I met him, do not be disappointed about the pneumag preformance and don't blame your valve or the LPR for short stroking. Usually it is YOU!

In an electro there is this little thing called dwell. This is the time lapse where the board resets waiting for the next trigger pull. In a pneumag there is no board to help you with lazy fingers. Short stroking is most likely happening due to your fingers overlappping, not allowing the ram to travel back completely to rest postion. To verify this pull as fast as you can with one finger only. If you are short stroking then it could be your valve, the LPR or not enough clearance between the sear and the ram. This may keep the on/off and sear from re-setting. If the gun fires as fast as you pull the trigger with one finger then it is you. Walking a pneumag is someting that needs to be learned and practiced. Some can do it and some can't.

When setting the ram position on a pneumag I usaully leave 1/8" to 3/16" gap between the ram and the sear. This is to similuate or create dwell.

I also believe the problem that most are experiencing with the Cheater is exactly this. Zap sets these with almost zero clearance between the ram and the sear. I am also concerned about the plastic ram. Mag valves are relatively hard on things and I feel that the plastic ram will be the weak link in the Cheater. Only time will tell though.

[zondo]

I explained this to zondo the day I met him, do not be disappointed about the pneumag preformance and don't blame your valve or the LPR for short stroking. Usually it is YOU!

So far, the only thing I'm disappointed in is my lack of air... now, if I only had a small compressor that would fill my tank at home.

John, this and tuning info needs to be put into ONE thread. Data mining the tech threads is taking more time than I thought for info.

[smeek]

I explained this to zondo the day I met him, do not be disappointed about the pneumag preformance and don't blame your valve or the LPR for short stroking. Usually it is YOU!

In an electro there is this little thing called dwell. This is the time lapse where the board resets waiting for the next trigger pull. In a pneumag there is no board to help you with lazy fingers. Short stroking is most likely happening due to your fingers overlappping, not allowing the ram to travel back completely to rest postion. To verify this pull as fast as you can with one finger only. If you are short stroking then it could be your valve, the LPR or not enough clearance between the sear and the ram. This may keep the on/off and sear from re-setting. If the gun fires as fast as you pull the trigger with one finger then it is you. Walking a pneumag is someting that needs to be learned and practiced. Some can do it and some can't.

When setting the ram position on a pneumag I usaully leave 1/8" to 3/16" gap between the ram and the sear. This is to similuate or create dwell.

I also believe the problem that most are experiencing with the Cheater is exactly this. Zap sets these with almost zero clearance between the ram and the sear. I am also concerned about the plastic ram. Mag valves are relatively hard on things and I feel that the plastic ram will be the weak link in the Cheater. Only time will tell though.

Completely understood, I'm know the short stroking is my fault on the trigger and I can't be sloppy with pulls. It's not that I think the LPR is a problem, I just don't know if I like feeding it ~850 psi directly and expecting it to reliably reduce it to the lowest pressure possible. I figure the lower the operating pressure is the quicker it can vent.

[Shirow]

I'm using a tickler... I think Shirow is using a micro rock.

Once mine arrives I will be :) I'll let you know how it is.

[Shirow]

Re: Loguz

I am also quite concerned about the plastic.. knowing how the mag works, I worried that over time it would crack, break or be worn down.

I'm guessing it will become a replaceable part over time as they start to be destroyed.. maybe someone will make an SS version or something.

I guess we will see.

[Bigwooly1013]

question about round 2

any ideas on when it's going to happen?

I'm trying to get my budget timeline figured out so that i will have all parts in hand when my m-90 comes to my door.

[smeek]

I was told about a month out on the next round.

[p8ntbal4me]

I told Scott to relay this idea to Magnus when I tried the proto-type:

Using an E-Mag trigger would allow the rod that contacts the MSV-2 to pull the rod away from the MSV-2 and have "constant contact" with the trigger rather than give more friction in the slot where the rod goes and holds the MSV-2 open.

Think about it,.. the magnet in the trigger would pull the rod back at the rate that the trigger is returning which, in theory, is the matched speed you are pulling the trigger.

This should solve alot of that problem.

Some one thin down an E-Mag trigger to fit the frame and try it :)

~ P8nt