50 caliber. Is it economical?

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  • MANN
    I am in TN. GO VOLS.
    • Apr 2006
    • 4266

    #1

    50 caliber. Is it economical?

    So SP is laying off people. Their new GI website was updated today according to Painthappy(MCB)



    I am not sure how all the legal stuff will play out, but none the less SP/GI/whatever they decide to call themselves will still be in the paintball buisness. By the looks of it they will now be investing in the 50caliber change.

    As a field owner is switching over to the 50 caliber economical?

    As a player is switching over to a 50 caliber economical?

    Please try to think logicly, and not emotionally. I realize that there are quite a few people that have 1-2k in each/any of their markers.

    -For field owners. I would guess that an average of them have somewhere around 50 markers on hand (and probally only 40 of them work). If SP came out and offered markers for 100 bucks a pop (GI making a very small margin) to all fields that order within the first 3-4 months I can see them changing over. Thats only 5k. They would use less air (although that is probally not a big difference anyway), and they should use less paint due to the fact that they are more accurate, and shoot farther. So when the owner rents out a marker + air + paint for 30.00 they now only have to provide 300 balls rather than 500. assuming that paint is the same price they save 6 bucks on every rental (paint being .03 a ball).That may not seem like much initally, but a group of ~17 renters will pay for each marker.

    If young players see that the renters markers are more accurate/shoot farther I would think that many players would switch over.

    -For players. It would be different for different groups I think.

    - Outlaw players. (this includes alot of your tippmann group) I think would switch over because of the "advantages" They will not have to make as many trips to walmart/dicks to get their CO2 tanks filled, and they will look even more like rambo guns. This group will change over

    - Tourney players. Logicly if you can shoot more accurate you will buy a product. Most of these players have thousands of dollars in gear, but most waste it every year when buying the new 08,09,10 year model markers. Assuming they can still shoot 1234bps. This group will change over

    -casual players. IMO this is going to be a large group of the people here, MCB, PBL, BEO, etc. Most are 20+ yrs old. Most are decent. Most have alot of money in our markers/equipment. Most sponsor themselves with their own paycheck. Most dont care if they win or lose, and always enjoy the beer after the game more than the game itself. This group I do not see changing over.
  • vf-xx
    Henchmen Inc.
    • Nov 2001
    • 3311

    #2
    5K is still alot of money to shell out right now. They'd almost have to sell at a loss or close to it. The economy isn't going to be blazing anytime soon.

    I haven't been keeping close track, but has anybody actually tested to verify the accuracy claim on the .50's??

    At the end of the day you're still shooting a round ball with a seam out of a smoothbore barrel.

    As to who would switch over: I read somewhere else that they may be trying to snag some airsoft folks. I wonder what the chance is that this will turn up an entirely seperate group of players between airsoft and paintball. Get some converts from each, and bring in it's own new players / fields?
    -- Feedback--

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    • cougar20th
      Registered User

      • Sep 2002
      • 2330

      #3
      As player .50 cal is not economical for me. If everyone were to switch and .68 not be availible I would be left with approx $15K of useless equipment. That would be the end of my playing because I could not afford to re-equip. I guess I would fall into the last of the groups you stated.

      For field owners I think it aslo would not be economical. Instead of stocking one size of paint they would need to stock 2 sizes. In order to allow everyone to play.

      What I see happening is that the paint compainies make cheaper paint but the prices dont change. The paint compainies make a larger profit.

      Ive stayed out of the whole mess. Can anyone prove. .50 is more accurate than .68?
      Originally posted by dano_____
      I keep forgetting to not feed my mags after midnight so they seem to multiply regularly.

      Comment

      • Shirow
        www.digitalgunfire.com
        • Aug 2002
        • 2023

        #4
        Originally posted by cougar20th
        As player .50 cal is not economical for me. If everyone were to switch and .68 not be availible I would be left with approx $15K of useless equipment. That would be the end of my playing because I could not afford to re-equip. I guess I would fall into the last of the groups you stated.

        For field owners I think it aslo would not be economical. Instead of stocking one size of paint they would need to stock 2 sizes. In order to allow everyone to play.

        What I see happening is that the paint compainies make cheaper paint but the prices dont change. The paint compainies make a larger profit.

        Ive stayed out of the whole mess. Can anyone prove. .50 is more accurate than .68?
        I don't think so, yet, but I'm sure that will be the marketing viewpoint. Shoots farther, more accurate. Nobody will buy based on 'uses less air'. I guess you can fit more rounds in your hopper, which might be nice for tournament play.. but I'm not sure that is sufficient impetus to change either.

        When they showed the air efficiency video I thought 'OK, but so what?' Who really worries about air efficiency at this point? There has got to be more than that up their sleeves.

        What I'm interested to see is.. will old Billy boy put his money where his mouth with and sell ONLY 50 cal markers through GI Milsim? Will they sell 50 cal and 68 cal? Will all the markers be interchangeable?

        Over the next year or two I can see interchangeable marker sizing being a big marketing thing also.
        Superbolt

        Comment

        • punkncat
          One foot less
          • Feb 2003
          • 5841

          #5
          I personally don't see this working out, short of being forced on us, as players.

          I still don't see anything that proves or backs up this better accuracy argument for .50 paint either. Everyone remembers how it did back in the day. Shell technology hasn't gone anywhere so revolutionary at to make their claims valid so far as I can see.

          Comment

          • xero28
            Registered Useless
            • Mar 2008
            • 1102

            #6
            I think that it will boil down to the actual performance of the .50. If they are 5% more accurate and shoot 10 feet farther than a .68, who cares, just shoot 3 more balls and tilt your gun up a couple of degrees. If they are 50% more accurate and can shoot 100 feet farther, now that's a different story and something to really think about (though I doubt this will in fact be the case). As stated by others, I really don't think the efficiency is going to be a big issue for people. I don't shoot 1000 rounds per game, so I don't need to worry about running out mid game. I always check between each game anyways and have yet to run out while shooting at someone.

            I fall into the last category. I've got a few cockers, a blazer and a mag. I don't see these being able to be converted to .50 (I may be wrong), and there is no way in hell I'm going to give up these fine markers for a SP or GI (or whatever they want to be) piece of crap. I think a lot of the SP fan bois are going to follow along with the "next big thing" in paintball because it's the new thing. For me, it is simply not economical and I will continue to shoot .68's as long as they are made. And if they stop producing them, then I'll have some nice trophies of the "glory days".

            Comment

            • Spider-TW
              U R techno-literate!

              • Oct 2006
              • 3554

              #7
              Originally posted by punkncat
              I personally don't see this working out, short of being forced on us, as players.

              I still don't see anything that proves or backs up this better accuracy argument for .50 paint either. Everyone remembers how it did back in the day. Shell technology hasn't gone anywhere so revolutionary at to make their claims valid so far as I can see.
              Considering the price of the paint, it's hard to imagine a shell that is equal to the Perfect Circle shell, which is what you would need to be accurate at higher velocities.

              A .50 sphere has about 40% of the volume of a .68 sphere. The only way that could mark better is by shooting a lot more of it, which may be the point (uncapped competition).

              However, if the .50 ball has 40% of the mass of the .68, the equivalent muzzle energy at 280 fps for a .68 ball should bring the velocity up to about 440 fps for a .50 ball. I want to see what kind of shell they want to hit people with in that smaller diameter and get good accuracy with as well. The acceleration (skin pressure on the ball) and friction will be up also. SP must be buying in on the patent to make the paint if it works at all.

              Comment

              • going_home
                Hebrews 13:8

                • Dec 2004
                • 8343

                #8








                Comment

                • punkncat
                  One foot less
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 5841

                  #9

                  The efficency thing is a no brainer. Less mass to accelerate, less volume to fill, less air.

                  On the accuracy part. I would be interested in knowing what paint they were comparing there. I did not see that they said anything about the brand of .68 used. Outfitted correctly (video and a bench) I would imagine that I could go in the back yard with a Tippy and some white box paint on CO2, and a Trix (just pulled out of my butt) on HPA with some Ultra Evil, and show you an "exceptional" increase in accuracy as well.

                  Sorry, I don't buy it. Not yet.

                  Comment

                  • xero28
                    Registered Useless
                    • Mar 2008
                    • 1102

                    #10
                    I don't know, an 18" grouping at 75' compared to a 28" grouping? Unless the person you're shooting at is 5" thick, you're bound to hit them. Yeah, I know, they might be through a small window, or just have a foot sticking out. I've hit people through a 6"x6" square with a single shot, and I've missed people who were running in the open after I've shot 50 rounds! For my playing type (rec woodsball mainly), I find that it's a big part luck that you hit someone. I think you're going to have the exact same experience with these .50 guns. When it really comes down to paint/bore matching anyways, what's the point. I'd like to know what type of paint/barrels they were using for these tests. Who knows, they may have had a barrel specially made to match the paint they were using for the .50 tests, and then using stock barrels or something for the other guns. I really wouldn't put it past them.

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                    • Mechanic79
                      Whatever, I do what I want

                      • Jul 2001
                      • 666

                      #11
                      .50 caliber doesn't make the game any more fun than .68 caliber.

                      If they changed I'd find a new hobby that's more stable!

                      Mechanic79's FeedBack

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                      • Fred
                        AO Zealot
                        • Feb 2002
                        • 2624

                        #12
                        There was a rather HUGE thread on the Tinker's Guild breaking down this debate, pretty much debunking any advantages of .50cal from what I remember.

                        I don't think it will take off...
                        Warp Feed Evangelist
                        My Feedback

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                        • Shirow
                          www.digitalgunfire.com
                          • Aug 2002
                          • 2023

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Fred
                          There was a rather HUGE thread on the Tinker's Guild breaking down this debate, pretty much debunking any advantages of .50cal from what I remember.

                          I don't think it will take off...
                          That's what I'm guessing too. I really don't see why people seem to think .50 would attract airsoft players either unless I'm missing something.
                          Superbolt

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                          • Lohman446
                            Useful posts: 7
                            • Jun 2003
                            • 9315

                            #14
                            Cause its 50... dude, like the Dessert Eagle, and BMG... its a 50.

                            "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not" - Dr Suess

                            Comment

                            • Spider-TW
                              U R techno-literate!

                              • Oct 2006
                              • 3554

                              #15
                              So, at the same velocity, the .50 cal has 40% of the energy of the .68.

                              That would imply a thinner shell and less distance, since the drag coefficients would be about the same.

                              The difference in accuracy is within normal paint to barrel match. If I owned my own paint company and could make it to the same specs all the time, my barrels would fit it better.

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