What Markers Changed the Game?

[Aslan]

torn

I'm still torn on how speedball/X-ball has affected the sport overall.

A part of me thinks rate of fire and air fields just completely changed paintball from a fun game in the woods into a "sport" where those who could run and slide and shoot 30+bps...and AFFORD the equipment, paint, practice, etc...pushed us rec ballers to the side...laughing at us for our Spyders and Tippmanns. In doing so, they attacked the base of the pyramid and the entire industry started to crumble.

On the other hand, if paintball is ever going to be mainstream, it has to have a constant flow of interest...and it has to have the AGG teenagers pushing for faster markers and hoppers and better paint. And pushing for high school teams and semi-pro/pro development. If it wasn't for the speedball guys, we wouldn't have the quality of paint we do now...everybody would still be shooting Brass Eagle, PMI, or Zap with the rich kids shooting old Marbs.

So Speedball/Airball...jury is still out.

I think FPO was a "negative" as it became popular. It made fields profitable, which was a good thing; but it drove up the prices to the point that players started retracting from fields and avoiding them. I played a LOT of Outback/Outlaw paintball where players REFUSED to go to fields...they couldn't justify the extra $20 a case for paint and $15 to play...and having to play with noobs and aug jerks. So they bought reasonably priced paint, a large tank of CO2 for $1 fills...and they all just gathered at Outback/Outlaw fields.

[hunter100]

Just a guess, but I'd say 95% of paintball players have never played x-ball or know what it is. I'd also guess that 80% of paintball players have NEVER bought paint anywhere but at a professional field.

[going_home]

Gen E Matrix.

[Aslan]

nope

Just a guess, but I'd say 95% of paintball players have never played x-ball or know what it is. I'd also guess that 80% of paintball players have NEVER bought paint anywhere but at a professional field.

And WOW you'd be wrong. I'm not sure about X-Ball...you may be right on that one. But paint sales and players playing rec ball on their on or nearby land...MUCH percentage than that. If I had to guess...I'd say rec field paint sales make up 45%...65% TOPS.

BYOP is the first thing I look for in a field...and MANY do the same thing.

[SeeK]

And WOW you'd be wrong. I'm not sure about X-Ball...you may be right on that one. But paint sales and players playing rec ball on their on or nearby land...MUCH percentage than that. If I had to guess...I'd say rec field paint sales make up 45%...65% TOPS.

BYOP is the first thing I look for in a field...and MANY do the same thing.

First off, I believe you would need to differentiate between commercial fields (which was probably intended) and professional fields (we all know there are too few of these).

The vast majority of the players probably only go out 1 or 2 times a year. So they don't know any other fields other than the one their friend brought them. Or if you are a parent, go to the most convenient one.

I would say that BYOP would only be an option for the largest operators since they have a stable customer base to make enough money off of field and air fees.

[bbotts77]

I would say that BYOP would only be an option for the largest operators since they have a stable customer base to make enough money off of field and air fees.

I find that it is the smaller fields that are more willing to do BYOP. They typically charge an extra $10-20 on admission for BYOP, since they aren't making any money off of paint. The larger fields are usually more strict about paint and rules in general, which I actually prefer.

[Justus]

Don't forget about outlaw play. That's got to be a significant portion of the paintball market as well.

And I'm fine with FPO so long as its reasonably priced and is good quality paint. I know what prices are on paint for distributors and dealers, and a FPO field that has a large customer base doesn't need to gouge the players. You can do it 2 ways - jack up the price and sell to a small amount of customers, or set a reasonable price and sell to a lot of customers. The volume would make up the difference as far as total profit goes, but it depends on what amount of work the field owner wants to put in and what level of goodwill they want to foster.

I actually prefer FPO when it's done right. That way I'm not getting hit with cheapo junk paint that stains or is dangerous (Monster Balls)

[OPBN]

Nearly every field I play at is FPO. I don't mind it so much as long as they are fair. We have one field that we went to only once due to costs. Not only were they charging a $25 field fee, they were charging like $60-70 for paint and additional fees for all day air. Actually, just looked it up and not sure if they changed it, but currently, they are charging $25 for entry and $89 for a case of paint. ADA is included. At $115 and a 2.5 hour drive to play rec ball, we only went the one time. I can partially understand these costs for a scenario game with tons of refs, props etc, but not for a day of rec play. We havent been back since.

[Spiritchaser]

Here's another question: what do people see as potential future game changers?

I'd say

1 . a truly low cost walkable mech (probably not high quality but simple enough to be relatively reliable anyway.) Basically what the enmey might evolve into given a year or two

2. On a vastly more hypothetical note: Anything that improves precision and accuracy. This is probably new paint, but it's probably also a new system to fire it. I know there are a few impractical first takes on this. I don't know if anything does, or even can ever work

[uv_halo]

I started in the 1989 and I bought the Bushmaster Deluxe that I have to this day. I will look at the question from the recball / woodsball side since that is what I've always preferred to play.

When the OP asks 'what markers changed the game?', I take that to mean which markers have actually changed how recball / woodsball is played.

I get how a lot of folks cite the new technological innovations but, their associated costs often keep their appearance on the recball / woodsball field to a minimum. The others find ways to work around them and a balance is at least temporarily maintained. I distinctly remember the old APG adds that field questions like "How can I deal with that semi-auto on the other team when I'm shooting a pump?" Answer: "Team up".

I believe that the 'game change' occurs when the new technology is proliferated to the majority. I believe the following guns are responsible for changing recball / woodsball:

Kingman Spyder - First Semi-Auto under $250
Ion - First electropneumatic (with eyes) under $250

Popular sales of these markers drove down the prices of other markers with comparable capabilities and the end result being is that the majority of players ended up with the capability and thus tactics like "Team up" aren't needed as much or, at all. However, this shouldn't be confused with technical innovation. Companies like AGD, Dye, PE, etc induce a trickle down of technology that at first, impacts the professional / competitive circuits and then the recreational community.

[OPBN]

2. On a vastly more hypothetical note: Anything that improves precision and accuracy. This is probably new paint, but it's probably also a new system to fire it. I know there are a few impractical first takes on this. I don't know if anything does, or even can ever work

This has arguabley already occurred. First strike rounds have been around for a few years now and finally beginning to make a dent in the market. Dye and Spyder are now both offering markers that will switch between the FSR and regular paint. Both are relatively new, so I haven't heard how well they are being received, but time will tell.

[Spiritchaser]

At some point I may actually see these things, but for now the price per shot is so high that their effectiveness is almost unimportant. Something to watch though...

[OPBN]

At some point I may actually see these things, but for now the price per shot is so high that their effectiveness is almost unimportant. Something to watch though...

So you're only accepting systems that you think are worrthy? You said "Anything that improves precision and accuracy." These would be anything and while the price is high now, if they become more mainstream, I can see pricing coming down to more reasonable levels. Will we ever see FSR's at the same price level as normal paint? Doubtful, but just because you don't like the cost of them, you can't dismiss their use as having a potential impact on paintball. As it is, they have already impacted paintball as at least two companies have specifically made markers to suppor their use. This is a HUGE step to general acceptance. If you're looking for some magical system that is going to take round gel filled paintballs and turn them into sniper rounds, it simply isnt possible. It has been proven time and time again. I would argue, that we have essentially peaked as far as the accuracy with standard paint is concerned.

[GoatBoy]

For markers that TRULY changed the game (for better or worse)

My list is short:

Line SI Bushmaster - took 007 mods out of the garage and put it into a slick package with a quick change CO2.

CCI Phantom - Ditto but an under cocker

Tippmann 68 Special - First dependable semiauto marker

AGD 68 Automag - DUH, do I REALLY need to explain this one on THIS forum....

WGP Autococker - Proved that advanced plumbing, could produce a dependable winning package. And due to it's hulking weight and ugliness brought about the aftermarket machine parts and customization market.

Smart Parts "Shoe Box" Shocker - First "electro-pneumatic" marker......

Excellent list.

Guys, if you're going to pretend to answer the question, give exactly why the marker changed the game.

Just spewing a mindless list is... mindless.

[blackdeath1k]

I played my first games renting in 93. Everything in my area was pump. Until a vm68 showed up at the field. Man playing against that changed our tactics. We all slowly got prolites to compete with the VM. A spyder or 2 showed up. But the rugged use didn't compare to the prolite. Then some of us went to mags. And others to cockers by the end of 94. There really wasn't another change here until the angel. The shocker may have existed. But it was big. Ugly. And not real reliable. The angel showed what potential electro had in the industry. The rt came out and agd showed a mech could keep up with the angel. But our agitator and shreader hoppers couldn't begin to keep up with the reactive trigger of the rt. So in my area the biggest gun game changesrs were....

Vm68 changed people from pump to semi. And a more shoot first and aim second play.

Prolite and spyders. Gave a mid priced long lasting semi auto. Spyders could be upgraded with all kinds of springs and valves to up the rof. Lighten trigger pull. And minimalize shoot down. The prolite was just rugged.

Automag/cocker. Bumped up ROF and style of play to more of what we call speedball. Cockers could be tuned even more if the player took the time. Or turned in to an expensive pile of junk. Mags were fast and reliable and last forever.
Angels just flat showed what electronics could do for the gun.

Intimidators and impulses. These I am adding because they put the idea of electronics that the angel showed to be out there in the hands of every 12 year old at my field by 2000-2001. And let them piss away multiple cases of paint in a day I might add.