What Markers Changed the Game?

[Spiritchaser]

while the price is high now, if they become more mainstream, I can see pricing coming down to more reasonable levels.

I think if the price reaches more reasonable levels then first strike could change the game (provided it works robustly enough) Ive read annecdotes that its more accurate, but also fussier. i wouldn't ever expect that the price woul hit standard paintball costs, but it's going to have to come down a lot to become more popular. Is the potential there? I've never shot them so all I can do is acknowledge that the possibility exists that they could

you can't dismiss their use as having a potential impact on paintball.

no, i dont dismiss that they could have potential impact. if their function leads to acceptance which leads to economies of scale which overcomes the currently impractical cost, then they could potentially have an impact. I do not feel that they have had an impact, and two markers do not strike me as significant to the game as a whole.

If you're looking for some magical system that is going to take round gel filled paintballs and turn them into sniper rounds, it simply isnt possible.

Magic is always so overrated

[GoatBoy]

[blackdeath1k]

How long have you played? I named the guns I named because in my area them were the guns that literally changed how the game was played. The vm68 changed it from pump to semi. The prolite and spyder literally made it a semi auto playing area. The mag and the cocker changed the tactics to more fast shooting and less hide and seek. Shocker/angel showed what electronic gun potential there was to create what kind of game play there is today. And yes. A gun can encourage a speedball style play vs hide and seek. How many people play speedball with a slow ROF gun?

[GoatBoy]

How long have you played? I named the guns I named because in my area them were the guns that literally changed how the game was played. The vm68 changed it from pump to semi. The prolite and spyder literally made it a semi auto playing area. The mag and the cocker changed the tactics to more fast shooting and less hide and seek. Shocker/angel showed what electronic gun potential there was to create what kind of game play there is today.

That's fine if you had to adjust your style of play to accommodate.

I'm saying that in order to change the game, you have to actually change the game.

And yes. A gun can encourage a speedball style play vs hide and seek. How many people play speedball with a slow ROF gun?

Sorry, I don't own a talking gun, so I receive no encouragement from it. That would really be nice to have a gun that dished out encouragement though.

I don't know how many people play speedball with a slow ROF gun. But I'm pretty sure the answer is at least 1, because I play speedball with a slow ROF gun.

Let me ask the same question of you: how many people play speedball with a slow ROF gun?

[blackdeath1k]

So is this gonna be like your agd posts that you refuse to name or show the focal point of your argument? There you talk about your gun but refuse to post pix. Here your telling me how what I lived through and observed had nothing to do with the guns. But you don't name how long you have been playing. And what you have seen and played with first hand. Magazines in the early 90s talked a lot about how to play against people with semi auto guns. It isn't my imagination. And to say that an easy to obtain high ROF gun doesn't encourage you to shoot more is like the guy that tells me that my 200+ HP sport bike is no more dangerous to a new rider than a sportster.

To answer your question though. Any speedball games I've ever played with people with slow guns ended with them not wanting to play unless they could borrow a faster gun. Them buying a faster gun. Or them not wanting to play speedball at all. This excludes experienced players that do it for there own fun in handycapping themselves.

[GoatBoy]

So is this gonna be like your agd posts that you refuse to name or show the focal point of your argument? There you talk about your gun but refuse to post pix.

I thought the focal point was pretty clear. In order to change the game, you have to actually change the game.

I was pretty clear in the other thread as well, but people have language impediments.

Here your telling me how what I lived through and observed had nothing to do with the guns. But you don't name how long you have been playing. And what you have seen and played with first hand. Magazines in the early 90s talked a lot about how to play against people with semi auto guns. It isn't my imagination. And to say that an easy to obtain high ROF gun doesn't encourage you to shoot more is like the guy that tells me that my 200+ HP sport bike is no more dangerous to a new rider than a sportster.

Because "how long I've been playing" is irrelevant. Either what I say makes sense on its own, or it doesn't. It's quite frankly weird to be "pulling creds".

In all seriousness, here's the other side: I've seen other people blame speedball for the paintball arms race, not the other way around.

How do you reconcile the two viewpoints?

To answer your question though. Any speedball games I've ever played with people with slow guns ended with them not wanting to play unless they could borrow a faster gun. Them buying a faster gun. Or them not wanting to play speedball at all. This excludes experienced players that do it for there own fun in handycapping themselves.

Actually, that wasn't my question, that was your question. And you didn't actually answer it. So let me repeat your question:

How many people play speedball with a slow ROF gun?

Your entertaining anecdotes do bring up an interesting point though. Paintball does seem to differ from locality to locality, possibly field to field, so some people's history and perceptions may differ. I have no problem believing that EVERY speedball game you've ever played with anyone with a slow gun was completely un-fun for them and wound up leaving a foul taste in their mouth. I believe you completely.

[blackdeath1k]

I didnt say totally unfun for anyone. But from hear on out I'm done feeding the troll. Because you apparently never want to show your credibility to any topic. You just want to argue.

[Nobody]

Tippmann SMG60 & 68: just because

Palmer pneumatics: took a decent pump and made it the most customizable tournament gun for nearly 10 years. Bud didn't make them, but he certainly tried to put his name on them.

WDP Angel: put a gun in the hands of a walkon that could fire as fast as a regular tournament player.

68 Automag: the fastest gun, and showed that you can think outside the box.

Airstarr Nova: the grand daddy of the spool valve/gun. you can't have any spool valve if this never worked.

SP Shocker Turbo: the cheater that became the standard.

ICD B2K: showed that the stack tubed electro-pneumatic gun can work

CCM pumps: you can make something that was dead, make it again, sell if for a higher price and still get people to think they are the greater than what has come before, even though they are the same guns.

[Coralis]

I'm going to go slightly off target here , but when I first started playing most players were using 12 grams and rock and cock pgp's . The two things that changed the game to me the most were the advent of "constant air' ie larger capacity CO2 bottles and then the Compressed air bottles of today and the advent of "gravity feed" which allowed the use of hoppers .