Lack of accuracy is what makes paintball the game it is.

[Patron God of Pirates]

True but, what makes the game challenging is that FS rounds force folks to choose low capacity, for long range and better accuracy, or, high capacity for reduced range and reduced accuracy. Successful application of either of these rounds require the appropriate tactics.

True. I have never played any scenario or even seen an FS round. I'm only conceptually familiar with them. I guess my point is more appropriately applied in an across the board manner. Even more so if you take it back to the beginning. What would the game be today if high precision/accuracy (whatever we call it) had been the norm from the get go? Would speedball have ever been born? I'm suggesting that it would not have. The game would be much more milsim and more closely resemble airsoft. In my experience most people start playing paintball expecting a more milsim game and keep playing because actual paintball is way more fun than crawling around in the grass getting bit by bugs. But I digress. I don't want this to turn into a milsim vs. speedball thread (I fully understand and respect both sides of that).

[cockerpunk]

I knew you'd be the one to call me on this. As I stated, it is only for the hypothetical discussion of this thread that I brought it up. Since you said you're fine with my rationale, I'll leave it at that.

One more point though. Since we don't see threads asking how to improve the precision of our markers, does that mean most of us don't have an 8th grade education? Uh oh.

haha, don;t get me started on science education in this country ... haha

i guess it just seems silly to me bring it up, and it happens every time, someone does it. and its just a whole discussion that doesn't need to be had compared to the main point. im all for accurate (hehehe) terminology, but everyone in this thread knows what we are talking about, there isn't an ambiguity here. and an even better term then precision would probably be repeatability. but again, thats neither here nor there.

idk, i have had A LOT of online arguments about the technical side of paintball. i have fought A LOT of battles on line about this stuff. i convinced the paintball world to use barrels smaller then there the paint for god's sake, i have had some knock out, drag out, fights. and maybe im just old and tired of it, but this one i just can't seem to bring myself to care about. everyone already knows what we mean when we say a guns accuracy ...

[nak81783]

haha, don;t get me started on science education in this country ... haha

i guess it just seems silly to me bring it up, and it happens every time, someone does it. and its just a whole discussion that doesn't need to be had compared to the main point. im all for accurate (hehehe) terminology, but everyone in this thread knows what we are talking about, there isn't an ambiguity here. and an even better term then precision would probably be repeatability. but again, thats neither here nor there.

idk, i have had A LOT of online arguments about the technical side of paintball. i have fought A LOT of battles on line about this stuff. i convinced the paintball world to use barrels smaller then there the paint for god's sake, i have had some knock out, drag out, fights. and maybe im just old and tired of it, but this one i just can't seem to bring myself to care about. everyone already knows what we mean when we say a guns accuracy ...

Ok. In the post you called me out on, let's pretend I used accuracy/precision interchangeably and said "because it's up to the shooter to provide the skill and execution.

[Frizzle Fry]

Let's get our popcorn and dunce caps.

[Patron God of Pirates]

SCIENCCCCEEEEEE FIIIIGHT!!!!!!!
lol. Make any marginally technical claim on AO and it's like throwing chum in the water.

[BTAutoMag]

theres a guy I play play with, Ben (we all call him "one ball"... Grimm's played against him) he plays pump an he uses a Sniper. Nothing special, doesnt even bore match his paint, uses a .689 stiffi. I LOVE playing against him, cause I get better everytime I do. Normally when you hear someone shoot and when you hear balls break around you, you lag a little. You know that chances of someone hitting you with that first shot is very slim and you can probably get of a few before he sights you in and you pull back. with this guy, however, if you see/hear him shoot, you better have your head already in the motion of pulling back into cover. I have a pictures of me in a fire fight with him, me having pods laying around my feet and splotches of yellow paint peppering the edge of the bunker around where I'm popping out. I've only shot this guy twice, once was the first time he played with me and I was severely under estimated when I shot him with a rental. The last time I ran my butt off to a bunker with a hole in it, knowing his favorite bunkers, and shot him without him even knowing I was there. Grimm will attest to how good this guy is with a pump, hosing paint into him and he pops out and shoots you once in the face mid run.

he is very quiet, doesnt brag and is one of the most humble and kind players I know. He doesnt call himself a sniper, nor do I consider him one as he like to be in your face when playing.

But I guarantee it'll only take him one shot to hit you, lol

[Laku]

SCIENCCCCEEEEEE FIIIIGHT!!!!!!!
lol. Make any marginally technical claim on AO and it's like throwing chum in the water.

Part of why I love the place

[cockerpunk]

SCIENCCCCEEEEEE FIIIIGHT!!!!!!!
lol. Make any marginally technical claim on AO and it's like throwing chum in the water.

not anymore sadly

<3 deepblue ... was probably the thing that inspired me most to do punkworks.

[nak81783]

SCIENCCCCEEEEEE FIIIIGHT!!!!!!!
lol. Make any marginally technical claim on AO and it's like throwing chum in the water.

I lose. He's got too much data.

We're simply getting our jargon down, so we can discuss things better.

[blackdeath1k]

Repeatability. now that works. I care more about the ball hitting the same place every time than anything. That and it breaking on target. Don't like paint bouncing off of steel structures hitting me in the back.

But that said. I don't think this would have stayed a hide and seek sport regardless of paint. To many players want the fast in your face action.

[nak81783]

Repeatability. now that works. I care more about the ball hitting the same place every time than anything.

Don't mean to pick on you cockerpunk and blackdeath1k, but sure...

We will change the already established scientific contrast between accuracy and precision, and instead make accuracy equal to precision, and precision not equal to repeatability, but it's own thing. Can reproducibility still be equal to repeatability, or should we get really crazy and make it equal both repeatability and precision...and therefore accuracy?

I truly mean this is good fun.

I see why it's better to take, whatever word is used, in context...

[blackdeath1k]

Haha. I was just meaning I liked that word choice. Kinda like with real guns. You could have a scope set perfect on one gun. Theoretically Swap the scope to a different gun. Same everything. But a different gun. And have to re set the scope. Barrel differences can make the bullet hit the target in a different spot. But as long as it always hits the same spot. Or 9 out of 10. Then still happy.

As far as true tech stuff. I really just want the ball to be consistent in hitting the same spot each time I shoot. If that is a distance of 300' great. If that's a distance of 200' OK. If its at least hitting the same spot I can deal with it. FS rounds hit the target at a farther distance. So for the guy that likes to crawl around and wait. They are a good option. But for a front guy. Like me. I'm happy with a case of basic paint that is round. Breaks on impact. And consistently lands in the same spot when shot from a given location.

[Justus]

Of course, a big problem with people asking to get more accuracy out of their paintball guns (using the interchangeable term that I think everyone agreed is okay), is the fact that they don't really know how accurate their gun is in the first place. I would surmise that a vast majority have never set their paintball guns in a gun vice, set up some high quality paint, and shot at a target to find out just how precise (repeatability, reproduceability?) the rig is. [And even then, it's going to have a lot to do with the quality of the paint, freshness, and size compared to barrel size]

Instead, they say "it's not very accurate" when they can't hip-shot and hit an opponent between the slats of their pallet bunker from 100 feet out.

Edit: Case in point, I can't hit anything beyond about 30 yards with my TiPX pistol. And I know it's not the pistol's fault. It's just so lightweight (I use 12g's) and short that it makes it easy for me to twist it ever so slightly in my grip and be off. (Human error) I'm sure that if I put it in a vice and shot 100 rounds, I would see a much higher degree of precision than what I tend to see on the field during a game.

[Patron God of Pirates]

Good point Justus. People are looking at accuracy/precision what ever we are calling it from a personal experience standpoint, not a scientific one. The observable inaccuracy that frustrates players is caused by a myriad of factors (air supply, bore sizing, paint quality, all kinds o' other crap), but the most important factor (like everything else in paintball) is the player.

All the fine tuning and expensive upgrades in the world won't make a round projectile behave like a bullet. There are always going to be balls that sail on you. From what I understand of vortex shedding, no ball truly flies straight. The answer is to adjust your game accordingly and that is just what players have done. Ultimately they(we) have created the modern game of paintball. A game where you adjust your aim point constantly and very seldom fire just one ball. A game that is played up close and personal because close range = better (observable) accuracy and more paint breakage.

[jolt00]

because accuracy is the ability and rate at which a system hits a target. so i can take the same gun, and the same target, and i can shoot it, and get 100% accuracy, and 0% accuracy ... how? just by changing the aim point. the aim point relies on the shooter, so one might say, well, that means the person is reposnable for accuracy, while the setup is responsible for precision. and that's fine, i'm fine with that. but you also don't see threads on forums saying "how can it get more precision from my gun?"

You don't know how close to posting a thread with the title "how can I get more precision from my gun"

I rarely post anything but I read everything and I wanted to poke a little fun at cockerpunk I miss reading your arguments on stockclass.... hahah