The Cocker guys have all the fun..

[BigEvil]

Resurrection, Nemesis, Niche, Empire sniper, 3 types of Kryptonite bodies, FLE body, and abundance of after market parts. Those guys are having all the fun, seriously. As a mag guy I feel like we are left out of all of this 'new stuff' fun. The Automag market is very soft. Why is that?

[splat15k]

To make matters worse, Simon is behind most of those things.... come back to the light and show us some love, Simon!

[dboggs79]

I'm guessing because the cost of building mags is generally a little higher. Which makes custom runs of products riskier for someone to make. I think if Simon were to produce some mag parts they would sell well enough. I don't believe it would be enough to broaden the overall mag market much though.

[cougar20th]

Resurrection, Nemesis, Niche, Empire sniper, 3 types of Kryptonite bodies, FLE body, and abundance of after market parts. Those guys are having all the fun, seriously. As a mag guy I feel like we are left out of all of this 'new stuff' fun. The Automag market is very soft. Why is that?

Since I'm directly involved with Niche & the Nemesis. Alot has to do with funding. There isn't a single point of funding in the automag community. This leave pre-orders the only real choice. As much as I hate pre-orders and get anxous as hell having everyones money when things get delayed. I simply cant afford to spend $5-15K for parts in advance.

I could do more projects but refuse to. I am keeping things to one project at a time. I will not get so buried with projects, work & family that I do what VD did. Yes it slows the flow of new product but its more stable I believe.

I'm guessing because the cost of building mags is generally a little higher. Which makes custom runs of products riskier for someone to make. I think if Simon were to produce some mag parts they would sell well enough. I don't believe it would be enough to broaden the overall mag market much though.

In all reality they are similar. Depends on the part. Nothing in either gun is rocket science. It really is that the automag community is a much smaller sales base which limits the amount you can sell.
Example: the Niche cocker frame is far simpler then a M86 Automag frame.

[splat15k]

It really is that the automag community is a much smaller sales base which limits the amount you can sell.

Is that really true? I see considerably more mags on the field compared to cockers.

[BigEvil]

Is that really true? I see considerably more mags on the field compared to cockers.

Some people say the opposite..

From Simon's forum

None that I know of.

Somewhere around 80% of the cocker gun bodies I make are actually built into Sniper Pump guns.

If I go to a big game I will see a decent number of cockers, seeing a mag is rare, and it's usually someone I know. I would say there are easily 100 to 1 (if not way more) cocker/sniper body based guns in use than mags.

I just can't see selling 100 of a mag based gun body, even in a year.

Yeah, we kinda hijacked that thread

http://inceptionforums.com/showthread.php?1656-5-Axis-Motocross-helmet/page4

[Fred]

AGD might not be dead, but the metrics laid out in that thread are indisputable - Empire has produced what, 60,000 Axe markers... there's bound to be a market for 150 bodies of various designs.

While I'm sure the number of AutoMag valves out there is probably staggeringly high, its been... what, 11 years? 12? since the Xmag and the Xvalve hit the market.

[capt spank]

i feel like when it comes to dealing in parts for mags, i'm transacting with the same people over and over again. when it comes to cocker stuff, i'm dealing with a much larger group.

[BLachance75]

I agree with Cougar, the Automag community is smaller than the cocker market. Simon and whoever can make cocker parts and they can be made into pumps or semis. With pump being on an upswing and the Sniper platform being so popular I can see people wanting to put their time and money into that.

Aside from myself and a few members on here I don't see any mags locally. I do however see people shooting Autocockers occasionally and more people shooting pumps than that.

[blackdeath1k]

I agree the cocker base is way higher than mag. I personally blame marketing. Not agd specifically. But from a sales point a cocker was a better sale for a local field/shop. Selling all the nich parts. And then getting paid to re tune the gun when the owner Fed it up. Far more return than our mags that. 20 years later get an Oring kit. And maybe a bolt and sear. And they are top end and hang with the rest of the new stuff in every aspect of the sport except for maybe tourney / high end speed ball. Me personally my 96 era automagRT has never made me feel I was in a disadvantage at any point since I purchased in in the LATE 90s.

[zondo]

How many of XMT's ULE MM bodies sold? How many of VD's bodies sold? I don't think that we would be able to sell 100-200 Automag bodies, which is how many Inception is selling depending on the body.

I agree that the customer base is larger for cockers than mags which obviously leads to a bigger following in the aftermarket. I'm usually the only mag shooter at my field. I won't see another mag until I hit up a big game or AO / BEO event.

We end up owning both anyway...

[Xmagterror]

Resurrection, Nemesis, Niche, Empire sniper, 3 types of Kryptonite bodies, FLE body, and abundance of after market parts. Those guys are having all the fun, seriously. As a mag guy I feel like we are left out of all of this 'new stuff' fun. The Automag market is very soft. Why is that?

Its a simple numbers game really. While i do enjoy making automag parts the market is dead and has been for 10 years. Its hard to Justify investing thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours to design/prototype a product only to have it fail or sell a dozen parts....case in point the shockwave body or even a better example is the classic RT body that allowed you to run an x valve to drop weight. 25 people were all for that and i didnt sell a single one.LOL Its almost laughable.

Im getting ready to turn the 5 axis mill loose on some stuff for you guys soon....watch the paintball talk section this fall/winter. a new product just may show up.

[river031403]

Since I'm directly involved with Niche & the Nemesis. Alot has to do with funding. There isn't a single point of funding in the automag community. This leave pre-orders the only real choice. As much as I hate pre-orders and get anxous as hell having everyones money when things get delayed. I simply cant afford to spend $5-15K for parts in advance.

I could do more projects but refuse to. I am keeping things to one project at a time. I will not get so buried with projects, work & family that I do what VD did. Yes it slows the flow of new product but its more stable I believe.



In all reality they are similar. Depends on the part. Nothing in either gun is rocket science. It really is that the automag community is a much smaller sales base which limits the amount you can sell.
Example: the Niche cocker frame is far simpler then a M86 Automag frame.

And Bud and Jeff play a big part....

[blackdeath1k]

Its a simple numbers game really. While i do enjoy making automag parts the market is dead and has been for 10 years. Its hard to Justify investing thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours to design/prototype a product only to have it fail or sell a dozen parts....case in point the shockwave body or even a better example is the classic RT body that allowed you to run an x valve to drop weight. 25 people were all for that and i didnt sell a single one.LOL Its almost laughable.

Im getting ready to turn the 5 axis mill loose on some stuff for you guys soon....watch the paintball talk section this fall/winter. a new product just may show up.

I really wish I could afford to fund you. You have made quite a few parts id love to have. But I can't. And wanting something doesn't pay the man that builds the product.

[going_home]

Simons watermark is selling at least 100 parts.

That is just unrealistic in the mag community.