since the cockers guys getting some love maybe we can too?

[cougar20th]

Ok guys heres the break down as I see it.

Rough numbers for a Emag
1) Unibody, something with the complexity of a shockwave (Make) $400
2) frame (Make, emag length) $300
3) Valve (from AGD) $250
4) Battery (from AGD) $89
5) PCB (Reflex Customs) $200
6) Trigger (Make) $45
7) Grips (Make) $35
8) Sear, Sear pin, Safety, selector, $55 +$7 +$7 +$15= $84
9) Battery pack (Make) $50??
10) Misc little things $20
11) Barrel (Buy) $60
12) feedneck $20??
12)Ano (Plan Black) $100

So a total of Approx $1600 before

13) Assembly? time = Money. It took 3 guys several days to fully assembly & test the 30 Niche Nemesis cockers.
14) Profit ?? No one works for free (Most of the time.)

Now the prices on some may be less but these are roughly what Ive been told by several non paintball machine shops for a run 25-50. Of course more means a slight quantity price break.

Now a Mech only Automag you could possibly drop about 5-600 off the cost.

The thing to remember is when say AGD or any big company does a run of parts its usually hundreds of parts. And if they own thier machines they can internally charge less.

[OPBN]

You lost me at Emag length. lol.

But in all seriousness, if going for an Electro, why not dump the antiquated and heavy Emag frame and go with something like the E90? Lighter, works just as well, and the body can still be non-Emag length. Heck, while at it, why not make it an EP mag with matching LPR foregrip?

[cougar20th]

You lost me at Emag length. lol.

But in all seriousness, if going for an Electro, why not dump the antiquated and heavy Emag frame and go with something like the E90? Lighter, works just as well, and the body can still be non-Emag length. Heck, while at it, why not make it an EP mag with matching LPR foregrip?

Emag length refers to a frame the length of a emag/uniframe style frame front to back. You have to start with more material, more machine time, etc.

I do agree the emag frame platform is antiquated. Its just what I could get numbers for quickly and that everyone knows. So I used it as a example

[cougar20th]

I want to make this clear. I am NOT singling anyone out. Ive been bombarded over the last year or two with people asking for me to design & have parts made for them. Wanting short timelines. Then when I give them the numbers they tell me I'm nuts.

Example:
I have quotes for my M86's out of 10 shops I contacted (other then the one I use now) the lowest quote (Below) was $321 PER for quantity 25 & $ 223 PER for quantity 100. The high quotes where closer to $500 PER for the same quantities. You don't even want to know what a machined prototype would cost. WITHOUT polish, dust or anodizing.

This is why I put up with the delays I have from my machinist. Because I can only have 2 of these 3 things, Good, Cheap, Fast. If I choose the wrong 2 then no one would by anything.

Also there are things I could do to the M86's to make them cheaper to produce. Like removing the internal undercuts, Flaten the gear of the frame so it doesnt have to be 3d milled. no slots in the trigger guard just holes for what is needed.

Yes I removed all the suppler info and most of mine. No one needs any of that.

[ScottyBeans]

Thanks for the info, Cougar. The lesson here might be "If you want a fully custom mag, build it your own damn self"

Thankfully you, XMT, luke, and others have made it possible and easy to do that for those who want to.

Quick question on body costs for you (and Big E mentioned something about this too): Why do mag unibodies seem to cost way more than cocker body/block kits? That looks like where the biggest difference lies. Are they just way harder to machine or something?

[cougar20th]

I ussually wouldnt posted the quotes. But now people see the issues with custom stuff.

The internal milling difficulties with the automag probably equal out when you figure the second tube in a cocker. But a Mag Must have concentric internal. A cocker not so much. They can be off.

There is currently alot of New Old stock cocker bodies out there that can be had at low prices to start with and have the material for milling. Which means they are already cheaper then if you milled from a block. Nothing is out there like that for Automags that I know of.

Nemesis. All I can say about that one is the buyers got a screaming deal.

[djinnform]

Also. AGD is sold-out of RT on\offs. So that's it.

[dodge3500]

I have in my custom ripper mag excluding my x-valve (because I ended up with nothing in it) is 1055$ including a 2 color splash anno.
I will have to add a little more for the shipping back once the anno is completed.

[BigEvil]

Also. AGD is sold-out of RT on\offs. So that's it.

Im sure there will be more. They can't build guns without them.

[going_home]

Also. AGD is sold-out of RT on\offs. So that's it.

If I were a betting man I'd wager tuna has plenty.

[SN toter]

Okay so the only way I'd see it happening here would be something like this:

We combine AO's resources for it. Like, say, we pair mini verts from Luke, a body from XMT(I see he has several body pre-orders going right now - maybe a slight mod to an existing design like the shockwave - because unibody - to differentiate it for this project). CCM sells raw feednecks, Inception sells raw stella barrels - basically we'd need to get someone like XMT on board and then we'd need a project manager to handle the logistics and costing. Then each marker can be anodized to match. Basically be a complete marker less the valve. I dunno, just musing - but I'd bet for around the $800 mark we could do everything for an AO branded pnuemag (less valve).

[lvl10LastBoss]

I do love the idea and I support it 100% but FFS i can't afford a freaking xmag lol. they cost pretty much near a down payment for a new car.

[dboggs79]

Okay so the only way I'd see it happening here would be something like this:

We combine AO's resources for it. Like, say, we pair mini verts from Luke, a body from XMT(I see he has several body pre-orders going right now - maybe a slight mod to an existing design like the shockwave - because unibody - to differentiate it for this project). CCM sells raw feednecks, Inception sells raw stella barrels - basically we'd need to get someone like XMT on board and then we'd need a project manager to handle the logistics and costing. Then each marker can be anodized to match. Basically be a complete marker less the valve. I dunno, just musing.

Everything you listed is already available.

[Nobody]

Okay so the only way I'd see it happening here would be something like this:

We combine AO's resources for it. Like, say, we pair mini verts from Luke, a body from XMT(I see he has several body pre-orders going right now - maybe a slight mod to an existing design like the shockwave - because unibody - to differentiate it for this project). CCM sells raw feednecks, Inception sells raw stella barrels - basically we'd need to get someone like XMT on board and then we'd need a project manager to handle the logistics and costing. Then each marker can be anodized to match. Basically be a complete marker less the valve. I dunno, just musing.

And unfortunately here is where people start to say no. I never held or fired a Luke's minivert frame. I would not like to buy into it, with parts i do not know. Then you might get those people that like single trigger frames, for instance. I do not like CCM feednecks and offer adapters to use Empire Universal(or Axe pro) feednecks. And in reality, offering a barrel is a non starter, because i personally will already have one by May & even if i don't, i may prefer my own existing barrels just because of familiarity not need the bores chosen by majority.

For a production run, you need to start at the top and work down. You need to have the project leader choosen first. Then he/she might look at the available resources and then either choose what the majority would want or just pick what would be used. I see no other way. You will always have people who won't be happy with it. You can't please everyone. Finding annodizers, getting machine shops on board are easy; getting 25 or so people to agree on a body, feedneck, frame and valve is near impossible.

[SN toter]

And unfortunately here is where people start to say no. I never held or fired a Luke's minivert frame. I would not like to buy into it, with parts i do not know. Then you might get those people that like single trigger frames, for instance. I do not like CCM feednecks and offer adapters to use Empire Universal(or Axe pro) feednecks. And in reality, offering a barrel is a non starter, because i personally will already have one by May & even if i don't, i may prefer my own existing barrels just because of familiarity not need the bores chosen by majority.

For a production run, you need to start at the top and work down. You need to have the project leader choosen first. Then he/she might look at the available resources and then either choose what the majority would want or just pick what would be used. I see no other way. You will always have people who won't be happy with it. You can't please everyone. Finding annodizers, getting machine shops on board are easy; getting 25 or so people to agree on a body, feedneck, frame and valve is near impossible.

Oh I agree, I was just brainstorming out loud.