since the cockers guys getting some love maybe we can too?

[luke]

Guys, bodies are my next big project. I have ideas of the route I want to go but nothing is set in stone until the chips start flying.
I'm prototyping my current project right now, when it's done I will start the body project. I hope to start the design phase within about a month.
I have a lot of concerns about the project and whether or not the support will be there when the time comes. People generally don't want something new, they want repeats of old parts, SFL, xmag or a emag, karta mag, aluminum minimag and RT bodies or the ripper style bodies, none of which is a direction I plan on going.

Once I have my slug designs down (Not AGD slugs, I'm doing something different) there will be many possibilities. This will happen and much sooner than later.

[ScottyBeans]

Guys, bodies are my next big project. I have ideas of the route I want to go but nothing is set in stone until the chips start flying.
I'm prototyping my current project right now, when it's done I will start the body project. I hope to start the design phase within about a month.
I have a lot of concerns about the project and whether or not the support will be there when the time comes. People generally don't want something new, they want repeats of old parts, SFL, xmag or a emag, karta mag, aluminum minimag and RT bodies or the ripper style bodies, none of which is a direction I plan on going.

Once I have my slug designs down (Not AGD slugs, I'm doing something different) there will be many possibilities. This will happen and much sooner than later.

Well that is incredibly exciting! Just remember, Karta bodies were new once upon a time too. They are just an attractive design. If you make something really freakin cool, there will be demand

[luke]

I missed this first thing this morning...
You pretty much nailed this, most prices are pretty close. Some are a little high but some are a little low but the final number was all but exactly of what I was thinking.
Not to mention #13 & 14 which most people don't consider.

I would also add #15: Shipping.
It sounds silly but most would be surprised how many hours it takes to pack and set up shipping labels 25 or 30 orders.

Ok guys heres the break down as I see it.

Rough numbers for a Emag
1) Unibody, something with the complexity of a shockwave (Make) $400
2) frame (Make, emag length) $300
3) Valve (from AGD) $250
4) Battery (from AGD) $89
5) PCB (Reflex Customs) $200
6) Trigger (Make) $45
7) Grips (Make) $35
8) Sear, Sear pin, Safety, selector, $55 +$7 +$7 +$15= $84
9) Battery pack (Make) $50??
10) Misc little things $20
11) Barrel (Buy) $60
12) feedneck $20??
12)Ano (Plan Black) $100

So a total of Approx $1600 before

13) Assembly? time = Money. It took 3 guys several days to fully assembly & test the 30 Niche Nemesis cockers.
14) Profit ?? No one works for free (Most of the time.)

Now the prices on some may be less but these are roughly what Ive been told by several non paintball machine shops for a run 25-50. Of course more means a slight quantity price break.

Now a Mech only Automag you could possibly drop about 5-600 off the cost.

The thing to remember is when say AGD or any big company does a run of parts its usually hundreds of parts.

I ask Tom about this, he said they generally ordered 1000 parts at a time. That put's stuff in perspective.

And if they own thier machines they can internally charge less.

That's not exactly true, but it does allow flexibly in many different areas that wouldn't necessary be possible otherwise. I won't go into details of all the ins and out's but the shop has to make a set wage just to pay for itself. Otherwise there would never be a profit before replacement of machines were necessary, not to mention the MANY consumables a shop goes through, it isn't cheap. There's a wage that a cnc machine HAS to make just to pay for itself before it dies, there's really no flexibility there unless you're only in it for the fun of it. It's much too expensive for me to do as a hobby.

Just because you own the machines (shop) and are doing all the work, that does not automatically mean you will accept less. If I'm doing design work I expect to get paid design wages. If I'm programing I expect to be paid accordingly. If I'm running the machine, same difference, I want a fair wage for my time. The machines must earn their wage to pay for everything associated in keeping them up and running and paying for themselves.

[dodge3500]

Sweet new stuff from Luke

[luke]

Truth is a complete Luke's Customs marker has been in works for several years now, it just takes time. I've had to learn more than one trade from scratch just to get to this point, still lots to learn but a complete marker is now doable. I'm not setup to do barrels but there are plenty of choices already out there, not to mention most of us already have our favorites.

[dodge3500]

Truth is a complete Luke's Customs marker has been in works for several years now, it just takes time. I've had to learn more than one trade from scratch just to get to this point, still lots to learn but a complete marker is now doable. I'm not setup to do barrels but there are plenty of choices already out there, not to mention most of us already have our favorites.

Well,I'm in
Sounds like a plan.

[AGD]

Quantity is exactly the problem. Once the paintball community started fracturing on what they thought a paintball marker should be, it became impossible to run enough parts to make things economically. 1000 pcs is where you START to approach the better price for the product. Paintball is not big enough to pull those numbers any more as evidenced by what is happening to DYE.

AGD

[SummaryJudgement]

B

Quantity is exactly the problem. Once the paintball community started fracturing on what they thought a paintball marker should be, it became impossible to run enough parts to make things economically. 1000 pcs is where you START to approach the better price for the product. Paintball is not big enough to pull those numbers any more as evidenced by what is happening to DYE.

AGD

Thus spoketh The Lord...

[BigEvil]

Quantity is exactly the problem. Once the paintball community started fracturing on what they thought a paintball marker should be, it became impossible to run enough parts to make things economically. 1000 pcs is where you START to approach the better price for the product. Paintball is not big enough to pull those numbers any more as evidenced by what is happening to DYE.

AGD

Also the market is way different. The days of the $1000 marker as the big sellers are over.

[dodge3500]

Also the market is way different. The days of the $1000 marker as the big sellers are over.

? Huh?
I see tons of 1000$ plus markers on the fields.I'll see as many new egos ,vanquish, dye and bob long as I do minis and tippmans.I must have misunderstood your comment do you mean the 1000$ gun as the lower end now?

[steve_81]

I hardly see any new high end markers on the field anymore. Nobody around here buys brand new high ends anymore. The used market is going pretty strong with 2011 Ego's and Luxe's. I've also started seeing a ton of players dumping Empire Vanquishes like crazy as well.

[cougar20th]

I would also add #15: Shipping.
It sounds silly but most would be surprised how many hours it takes to pack and set up shipping labels 25 or 30 orders.

That is a very good one. That and hardware are the things that I missed planning for on my first run of frames.

On a semi related note, do you know how pissed people in line behind you get once they realize you have 30 packages to ship? One of these days I gotta do everything online.

[luke]

That is a very good one. That and hardware are the things that I missed planning for on my first run of frames.

On a semi related note, do you know how pissed people in line behind you get once they realize you have 30 packages to ship? One of these days I gotta do everything online.

Buying online is a ton easier your crazy not to.

[Nobody]

? Huh?
I see tons of 1000$ plus markers on the fields.I'll see as many new egos ,vanquish, dye and bob long as I do minis and tippmans.I must have misunderstood your comment do you mean the 1000$ gun as the lower end now?

Are those people the original owners, or people that might have found it second hand or even have traded guns and maybe cash? Hell, i have a 99 Eclipse LED Angel, which was a $1500 gun, back in the day or even my Ego6. Does that count?

But BigEvil's state is more that you will sell more $400 dollar guns than guns that cost 4 figures. Compare 10 years ago to today. Back then you had yearly gun releases, now their are spread out between the line of guns. Planet Eclipse, MacDev, even Empire.

[Nobody]

I hardly see any new high end markers on the field anymore. Nobody around here buys brand new high ends anymore. The used market is going pretty strong with 2011 Ego's and Luxe's. I've also started seeing a ton of players dumping Empire Vanquishes like crazy as well.

That is because the Vanquish is a rebadged SFT/NXT Shocker. It doesn't to my knowledge even shoot any better than them, especially in cold weather.