Vertical feed / PF question?

[nak81783]

I know. I've made this comment a few times throughout this playing season, and every time someone responds as you did. Perhaps it's specific to the field chain I play at the majority of the time. Of the three other places I played this season, two use Empire (which was absolute garbage - inconsistent size, dimples, oblong) and one uses Valken (don't recall the grade or how it sized).

[blackdeath1k]

So far I love all the valken I've used. Allbeit a tad smaller than paint from years past. Overall no complaints at all. That in no way means that some fields may not buy seconds. Or any other variation of lesser grade paint from same manufacturer.

[Cyco-Dude]

I know. I've made this comment a few times throughout this playing season, and every time someone responds as you did. Perhaps it's specific to the field chain I play at the majority of the time. Of the three other places I played this season, two use Empire (which was absolute garbage - inconsistent size, dimples, oblong) and one uses Valken (don't recall the grade or how it sized).

ugh, don't get me started on empire. stuff is "marballizer" and "evil" in name only...

[vintage]

ugh, don't get me started on empire. stuff is "marballizer" and "evil" in name only...

where is the like button?

[boo]

Actually vert feed sucks for force fed loaders. Your slowly seeing manufacturers get away from them with offset feednecks.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j9WJoWtjAeA

PE did these slow mo vids and on top of learning from them how to make better bolts they also learned that vertical feednecks caused a lot more bounce in the chamber from force fed loaders.

https://planeteclipse.com/site/econs

I'm wondering if this is also why warpfeeds are sidefeed, on top of the positioning of the feeder.

I'm actually surprised straight vert feed are still an industry standard when everyone uses force fed loaders. They are a holdover from agitated loaders.

In theory, set up right, a powerfeed should be better then vert feed unless other factors are at play.

OK. We all grasp why the pf design was used back in the 90s. And why vert is so much better today. But I've been thinking a lot lately. Or at least the last few times I've played. When using a FF hopper. In my case a rotor. Does that added geometry angles the ball is being pushed down cause any potential issues?
First im using a classic original automagRT.

I find when I play with my old revolution that I chop a ball or 2 when I outshoot the hopper. Kinda a given. Otherwise no issues at all.

Now when using a rotor all bets are off with firing speed. But I feel like the geometry involved and the FF on the ball may cause inharrent drag in the feed speed that I wouldn't otherwise have with a vertical feed body? If this makes any sense? And thus cause hickupps at times sorta like outshooting a gravity fed hopper yet not exactly?

[blackdeath1k]

Boo. I would suspect nak is on to something with his #2 observation with the ff hopper pushing the plug enough to be an issue but not stand out as noticeable during play. Due to this. I plan on putting a retainer on my plug next time I play and see if any noticeable unconsistant feeding takes place.

As for pf or vertical feed. Personally I'm 100% content with my classic old marker as long as there are no issues. And this is the final issue that I'm finding at all. As the rest we're fixed with a 100% go thru on the valve. And modifying the nubbins.

[nak81783]

I've always been able to get 15 bps from powerfeeds once the Automag powerfeed plug issue was resolved and a detent issue was resolved with an electronic-framed Spyder. I've also had much better luck with reflective eyes (E2 Autococker and X-Mag) than breakbeam (Nerve and Axe Pro). This is with a Halo; never saw the need to upgrade. I run semi, single finger, so I'm only set at/pulling 8-12bps depending on field/league rules and/or what the competition is doing (e.g., 8bps when playing against rentals). So, although the PE modifications seem logical to improve performance, I don't know where they would be needed. That said, i would take a Mustang over a Focus, in a race of the latter, so I understand the allure.

[vintage]

are you using your RT barrel Jason?

[blackdeath1k]

are you using your RT barrel Jason?

RT barrel? As in the OEM? No. I've got a 12" dye ultralite I've used forever.

[SummaryJudgement]

Actually vert feed sucks for force fed loaders. Your slowly seeing manufacturers get away from them with offset feednecks.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j9WJoWtjAeA

PE did these slow mo vids and on top of learning from them how to make better bolts they also learned that vertical feednecks caused a lot more bounce in the chamber from force fed loaders.

https://planeteclipse.com/site/econs

I'm wondering if this is also why warpfeeds are sidefeed, on top of the positioning of the feeder.

I'm actually surprised straight vert feed are still an industry standard when everyone uses force fed loaders. They are a holdover from agitated loaders.

In theory, set up right, a powerfeed should be better then vert feed unless other factors are at play.

Thanks for the vids! And everyone stating vert feed is a holdover from agitating days is correct in my opinion. Remember when Angels started having freakishly tall feednecks to have a ball-stack? That's because they were out shooting the Revys of the day. Side-fed warp styles and warped PFs have always worked fairly well. And Power Feeds or even just angled feednecks fought the blow-back (gas into feednecks) issues the blow-forwards/open-bolts suffered back when Tippmanns and Spyders were the norm and mags and cockers were the only real "high end" markers you'd see at a field.

Just my two cents

[nak81783]

Vertical feed being remnant from agitated hopper days seems reasonable, but given the existing bps caps, is there need for change? My guess is you'll have players complaining about the .250" or whatever offset from a symmetric marker. "Aw, man! I got hit on my hopper on the offset side. If only this thing were a vertical feed!"

[blackdeath1k]

People will always find something to complain about.

I really don't remember vert feed being a standard until after FF came out. Everything pre 2000 that was mainstream was standard side feed or PF. But reguardless it used an elbow. Feed stacks were high to add weight and ball count to avoid chopping balls.

Reguardless. As far as I'm concerned. Long as my marker is shooting consistent I'm perfectly happy with my pf setup. And I would really suspect nak is on to something with the pf plug shifting in its space.

[Cyco-Dude]

i dunno, those o-rings hold them in pretty good. i seriously doubt any force-feed loader is going to move it.

[blackdeath1k]

i dunno, those o-rings hold them in pretty good. i seriously doubt any force-feed loader is going to move it.

My halo2 pushed it out multiple times. So it stands to reason that the rotor could push it enough to be an issue. Yet not real noticeable without focusing on the plug.

[nak81783]

When I've seen it happen, it's less than .100" but enough to expose the weld joint.