AGD SFL E-MAG VS. WS Dark IR3

[TITAN]

lol

im 17 what do you care?

[Steve Crush]

the reason i bought the emag cause it offered the electric, manul, and hybrid mode. I always wanted a electric gun and in the same time i didn't wanna part with my RT. I had an RT b4 and absolutly loved it. I bought the emag cause it kinda looks like the RT. I could care less if the angel looks better. I personally have not had a single ball break on me (knocks on wood). Played with a friends angel last week and even tho i could get it to fire quicker i couldn't aim with it as well, i couldn't get a comfortable grip on it. And i paid a little less then 1400 :). in my opnion Emag = win


steve

[Cliffio]

Originally posted by Heat


Gotta be careful when ya start flaming ppl, YA KNOW? Speacially when the one your flaming admits to being a major hot head and has no considerations for flameing back. Luck you I'm in a good mood. OH, and it has a tendancy to get whole threads shut down.

*sudden shiver in my boots*


anyways, any responsible person is ready to go play paintball WAY before its time to leave
-- and angels only take like an hour and a half to fully charge, so 10 or 20 minutes is gonna get you a full day,

i had an adrenalin for about 2 months and i NEVER charged it and it still had a full bar left when i sold it

the new batteries are great

and lets say you did forget to charge it, you drive to the field right?

you cant really use manual mode as some huge advantage, cause it doesnt get used unless your gun is dead or screwed up

Cliff

[pumpamatic]

Wow, everybody is way too biased on this board. How many people have tried a Dark IR3? I'm guessing not too many, because they've just came out, and only a certain number have been put out so far. Nobody here seems very willing to admit that the SFL is having a few troubles. Hyper just wished to post his opinion, you aren't going to change his mind. Manual mode does seem a bit overrated, I mean I can keep fresh batteries in a 60 dollar hopper, if you own a 1500 dollar gun and can't keep the batteries charged, maybe your mommy should help prepare you for your weekly outing. I definetely love my classic mag, but I have shot angels, and will admit they are nice. Just because AGD is my favorite brand doesn't mean I can't covet other brands. Heck, if I had the money, you'd see me with an Angel backed up by my trusty old classic mag. I agree with many of you, when the new mods come out, the SFL will equal any Angel, but I do think it is poor quality to release a gun that you cannot say is perfected. And though you might say that all new guns have a few flaws, I find that unacceptable also. I will admit that most Angels I have seen will beat most SFL's anyday. AGD loyalty aside, it sounds as if the general amount of SFL's are less than what I have expected from AGD. This gun definetely needs to go back into the oven.

[bornl33t]

Originally posted by TITAN
lol

im 17 what do you care?

I just wanna know what I'm dealing with. No I know.

[2000Sabre]

This is a great thread and I think it's one of the reasons why Tom keeps AO alive. I can always apreciate a civil debate. All that being said I wanted to weigh in on the video vs. manual thing.

I think the AGD technical videos are great, it provides the user a wealth of information and enough detail to learn how his/her marker works inside and out. However, when the video you receive doesn't match the product in your hand it can be confusing and not as useful. Case in point, I bought an RT Pro and my video shows me how to assemble/disassemble an RT. Now I understand that they're not all that different but if you're new to paintball like I was you can get confused (as I was). I had to stop/start and rewind it several times to figure out what I was watching. Same with the E-Mag video. I bought an SFL and got a video for a standard E-Mag. Again, grip frame and valve are the same but body is totally different as well as the barrel and breach. My SFL also has a different software version than a standard E-mag.

Although it's great to have a video it doesn't to a lot of good if has outdated information in it and it's not kept up to date. I would expect for $1500 I would get a video specific to the product I purchased.

Secondly, a very detailed manual can come in handy when you don't have access to a TV and VCR, like when you're at the field and can't remember what that little adjustment was you saw in the video but you know you need to have it done.

Anybody that's purchased an AGD product would have to admit that at times their documentation has been pretty poor. I know when I purchased my RT Pro and Warp I was overly impressed with the documentation I received.

My point here is that it's little things like this that hurts AGD's reputation and it's something that they need to address if they're going to be considered among the elite paintball manufacturers. It's stuff like this that sets the really great companies apart from the all so rans.

Also, even though Shocktech does the milling, the SFL is still an AGD designed and built gun and it's their reputation that's at stake. It's in their own best interest to make sure it works perfectly out of the box and that little things like packaging and documentation are of the highest quality.

[Grey_Goose]

Hysperion...

Try a RaceGun... that's the real deal

[hitech]

Originally posted by Hysperion
Well when I spend $1500 on a marker I don't.....and besides the ir3 is arguably more advanced then the sfl and it hasn't given me any problems out of the box....If you're happy with paying 15 bills for an incomplete marker, by all means buy an sfl with my blessing.

I understand not wanting problems. That's why I don't normally buy anything that is bleeding edge. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the "only" problem you were having was the SFL breaking brittle paint? If so, you don't really know if it was truly the SFL problem or something else (like just plain a** bad paint).

It's good that your IR3 is not giving you problems. There are other SFL owners are not having any problems either. I'll bet that there are IR3 owners with as big a problem as you are/were having with you SFL.

BTW, the level 10 mods are taking longer because Tom is taking the time to be sure they will accomplish the desired results. Most other manufactures don't put the effort into test to insure the "feature" performs the desired function.

[Rynoboy06]

I just want to say that the IR3's are tricked angels, with years of perfecting things behind them, more of an generational change than a whole new gun. The very original Angels were, if I can beleive half what I read, trash. Major issues. While the regular emag has been around for a while, and had any problems pretty much ironed out,a radically altered gun, with a whole new style of body, drastically unlike anything the company has ever done, with an experimental bolt,some new electronics (IE ACE), and a totally new feature never before seen (changable breeches), released a little early, is CERTAIN not to be as problem-free as the IR3. I don't think the SFL's should have been released yet, at least not to the public and not without a warning, but we who are so eager to defend TK's pride should remember that the valid comments of several less-than-ecstatic SFL owners only reflect this batch. This first run. I don't think it reflects well on AGD and Shocktech, but nobody remembers the gen 1 angels, do they?

[CNickerson]

WDP IR3- Techs in every nook and cranny of the world you can think of mean that if people have problems with the IR3's, they are more than likely gonna take it to their local tech and have it fixed right away instead of posting on a forum and awaiting an answer(therefore, you won't hear that much about problems). Plus, there are many more Angel IR3's out there, so you are gonna hear a lot of people saying how they love their new gun.

AGD/Shocktech SFL E-Mag - Around 50 sold to the public. About 5 people I can count(this is not conservative, this is an estimate of all the problems I've seen posted) have had problems. They post on this board because it means they can get in touch with the very few people that know about SFL's and how they work, they do not just go to their local tech and get it fixed up in a jiffy. Also because of the low amount sold, you don't hear about a ton of people talking about how they love their new gun.


Maybe I'm wrong, this is just the way I see it. However, I will accept that the SFL may have some problems, but from what I've seen, the extent is ball breakage, and this ball breakage is in cold weather. All other owners I've talked to have had great experiences.

[X-Plosive]

The E-matrix has been out a bit longer and also has interchangeable breeches.

[Rynoboy06]

You are right about the matrix - but do they actually make more than one breech? I know Bill Mills had to make a warp breech for it.

[gophermcse]

re: matrix breach

Yes the Matrix does have exchangable breaches . Currently stock Matices come with an autococker threaded breach. Angel and Spyder threaded breaches are also available. The Matrix also had some growing pains that it had to live through as is apparently so for the SFL. It seems that most of those original problems have been worked out. I gotta say that I own neither the SFL nor the IR3 so won't weigh in on this debate. I just noted the Matrix comment and wanted to stick up for my marker of choice. Just remember that patience is a virtue and I'm sure Tom is working like heck to make mags the best they can be.

[Tom Sparkman]

Originally posted by hitech


No. However, I cannot understand wanting a color manual instead of the video. IMO (I'm never humble, can you tell?) the video is FAR superior to a manual.

Yeah, having a video is a great help at the field.

When I bought my Mag 10 years ago my VCR ate the video, forcing me to get my info from a clueless shop owner.

I can't stand products that don't have a printed manual.
Tom

[CNickerson]

The mag isn't the only one. Worr Games cockers have(to my knowledge) come with a folded sheet of paper stapled together(maybe 4 pages) as their manual, and it gives absolutely no insight on how to maintain a cocker, one of the most complicated guns around. Now, the mag is one of the most simple designs around, and it comes with more documentation that this.