The Offcial BOX Thread

[slayer]

I know you have to make money, but I have to tell you Tom: the reason I buy AGD products is that they work well and require like 0 maintenance. I don't play in tournaments, so I don't care about getting every last shot out of my tank. I don't want to pay extra for boxes, anodizing, or slick marketing. I want to pay money for a gun that breaks less balls, is well balanced, has an adequate(in the case of RT valved guns: insane) rate of fire. I don't play paintball to make a fashion statement. I go out there to shoot people, and if a gun made out of pvc pipe did it the best, with the least headaches then I would have one. WDP makes superb, over the top guns, but with all the advertisements, and sponsorships they give out, they are pushing up costs. All the advertising transfers into more costs for the buyer. If you want to pay for the image, as well as performance (since you pay for both) get an angel. If the level 10 mod thingy is revolutionary then I will send in my E-mag, otherwise I am happy. One thing I think you should do is hold companies that modify your products to your standards. All the complaints about emags that I have read are not about standard ones, they are either from shocktech, or pro teams. These companies are giving you a bad name. Yeah, they may look cool, and they get your name out there, but if the gun isn't working, the poor guy who owns an SFL is probably cursing his emag, not shocktech and his buddies are listening. If my buddies automag(the first one around in my parts) didn't work so well, then I gurantee my friends would not all have/had an automag.

Sorry if the post was long, but I think it is funny that people are worried about boxes instead of ball breaking issues, or ways to shave off weight.

[Puddleglum]

I would love to see the SFL and others come in a tin. Something the color of platinum stamped with the AGD logo would be really cool.

[pito189]

Here are two pictures of the Ir3 boxes.

[pito189]

Opened.

[hitech]

Originally posted by AGD
I don't think I can bear any more abuse over this issue since believe it or not I really do get emotionally wrapped up over things said here on the forum.

Tom,

I don't know if you will ever read this, but I was compelled to write it anyway. Much, if not all, of what I am going to say you may already understand. However, it doesn't hurt to hear it again.

I believe you when you say you get emotionally wrapped up in AO. It's probably not healthy. But then it seems to have driven you to where you are today.

When reading negative comments here on A0 those making them are discussing the company, not you. I know, you ARE the company. Those making the comments do NOT see it that way. These comments are just the opinions of those who have written them (and we all know about opinions ). When posting something to a forum there is a sense of autonomy. The writer is somewhat isolated from responses. Their comments will almost always be harsher than comments made in person. Although there is a sense of family here, for the most part we do not know each other. Comments shouldn't be taken as if a friend of yours was making them.

You have no reason to feel beat up over the box issue. Those who think the SFLs and Extremes should be packaged in a better box believe that it will make a better impression on the purchaser. This in turn will improve the impression the purchaser has of the company that manufactures the product. The suggestions given are the opinions of those who gave them. Maybe they are right, maybe not. Even the best thought out idea may not work. Remember, if there was only one marketing methodology that worked, we wouldn't have anyone whose full time job is trying to come up with a better way to market products.

We, the customers of AGD, have a different agenda than AGD. While AGD (probably) wants to make the most profit possible while not compromising it's quality, we the customers want what we want when we want it. We want flawless products. We want them dirt cheap. We want everyone to be impressed with what we have. It is a difference worth remembering when asking for opinions.

Although I am tickled that I have had an influence on AGD (small influence), I am reminded of advice given to baseball coaches. "Don't let the fans pick your starting pitcher". I think it applies to AGD with respect to AO. Don't give to much weight to what is said here. What is "too much" is, obviously, difficult to determine. Just remember who we are. Nameless, faceless, anonymous people posting stuff on the internet.

Okay, I have rambled on enough. BTW, I have not read any of the responses, so I may be repeating what others have said.

Best wishes,
Hitech

[Chris]

For all of you that are saying you dont care how the box looks, great. But you must understand one thing. AGD does not need to sell YOU the marker...you already have one. AGD needs to get the newbies and people who dont have much experience in the sport to get their markers the old fashioned way.

Take, for example, the Mitsubishi Eclipse. All in all, not that great of a car. It is a mediocre car. A little flashier than a Cavalier, more expensive, about the same quality etc...etc...You know what makes these cars sell so well, its the marketing. Remember the ad with the "start a commotion" music? We all do. They have good looking men and women in their ads (sex sells) they have flashy cars, they have the ads that scream excitement. This sells to our generation.

AGD needs to focus more on getting newbies to notice their guns. Once you have been in the sport, you will know that AGD has quality markers, low maintenence, great customer service etc...but that doesnt matter to a newbie, who wants nothing more than a pretty gun. Look at the spyder shutter...perfect marketing gimick from Kingman. It is nothing more than a pretty spyder, same crappy quality and whatnot, but what makes them sell at a premium price is the marketing and the flashiness factor.

Here are my suggestions:
1) Get a pretty box, the idea I gave in my last post, or go more towards what the IR3 is shipping in.
2) Offer color choices on your mags, even if it is at a $50 premium. Anno the body rail and barrel, maybe even the grip frame if it comes with a metal one. (this goes for AM, MM, and RT Pro, and yes, I do know the RT Pro has a carbonate body rail)
3) Advertise flashy.
"What do you want to be? Good, or bad?"
Then show a picture of an all black mag, and one all polished up. Follow this one up with "Be yourself" and a picture of a custom anno job on an Emag. Or say something about going to the dark side...or the force being with you...whatever is popular at the time.

4) Simplicity works great, just like stated before, look at the Angel AIR ads.
5) SEX SELLS. If you want to stay away from that, fine...go another route and go with excitement. But look at the Lesbian/Kiss AIRS...see how many people are still trying to find those bottles..and are willing to PAY for them.
6)Advertise your warp feed as compatable with all other markers. Hell, take a picture of it on an Angel and leave it at that...when you take the picture, make sure the gun is slightly out of focus, but still identifiable, while keeping the warp in sharp focus. Make an ad with caricatures showing the difference between warp and no warp.
7) You have some of the best products available, be humble, be vocal...whatever you do, make sure you get word out.
8) Another advertising route, "No upgrades needed" Point out that your gun has been engineered from the get-go to function perfectly as it is.
9) Play off of your weaknesses, "Got marketing? We dont." Then put a picutre of TK with a dumbfounded look on his face. Next page, Tom is happy showing off his new Extreem C&C and a caption, "Our guns speak for themselves."


Just some suggestions, take them for what they are worth. I am no marketing specialist...but I do try and take notice of what is going around me.

Enough ides from me though...use them as you deem fit, if you find them worthy.

-Chris

[Rynoboy06]

I really like some of these ads. These look hilarious. maybe if AO comes up with some concept art these would have a better chance of actually being made.

[Bonx0007]

AGD,
Take the Dave Thomas approach. He was unable to finance a big name in his ads so he decided to be his own celebrity. From then on everyone knew who Dave Thomas was and he became famous because of his ads. Yours don't have to be as shameless as his were but you can show your participation in the company by playing off your weakness like what was said before. I do like the idea of getting some ads in APG an FaceFull. I actually stopped getting those magazines because nothing in them applied to me. Almost no AGD products premiered in any of them. There are rarely any photos of mags in them and that made it boring. If you want an all black mag with a warp I will volunteer mine just get some pics of your guns out. The fact is that you have to spend money to make money. Go out on that limb an get people to notice you. You should advertise the Emag Challenge to companies. A clear example of this is the recent chicken nugget ordeal with McDonalds. Carls Jr. advertised that there is no such part on a chicken as a nugget and that is why Carls Jr. made true white meat chicken breast strips. The result of these ads were that McDonalds started making chicken strips. I know nuggets and paintball markers are quite different animals but I think this same technique would be successful if used correctly. Invoke competition. I know all you gun manufacturors are friends but a little competition never hurt anyone. Your situation reminds me of a Giant that lets the little guy win because the Giant doesn't realize the power that he truely posseses. Your company has great potential but it is up to you on how far you take it, and I think you should take it to the Extreme!!!!!

[FatMan]

Boxes and stuff

You know I remember seeing one of the first Angels to come out. Since then I've probably seen hundreds - and I've seen hundreds of Angels adds - but today was the first time I saw an angel box.

I think right now AGD would do itself more good putting some effort into advertisement than into a box.

On the other hand, there are those times when you want to stack up the boxed markers - like at a trade show or other demo situation - and a nice box looks good then.

The rest of the time noone cares. The sleeve solution is probably a good start.

But seriously, when it comes to slogans, logos, cool photos and graphics and pure SEX the folks at AGD are way behind the pack. Heck Kingman does a better job - and so do a bunch of other low-end makers.

I would never want to see engineering quality sacrificed for market sex, but it sure wouldn't hurt to get in the game. I'm not a marketing type myself, so I can't give good advice on this, but it does seem worth at least a little thought.

FatMan

[ShooterJM]

hehehe yeah

AGD - - Engineered Quality and Precision.

Then a picture of the factory with a big sign outside that says: Elves need not apply.

You could even put a couple little cocker elves picketing!

[Krazy Ivan]

To clarify the previous post. It was made to adhere more to expanding the Mag family. The post was not directed toward Tom or AGD in a bad way at all. I was merely suggesting that the mag sales, at least in eastern mass are falling dramatically. I walk into the local pro-shops and see maybe a 1' shelf in the case will be Mag accessories, including their barrels. Now I understand there isn't too many things to upgrade on a Mag, however when the ReTro valve, one of the most popular and important upgrade isn't offered, it tells you something about market perception.

[Yatta!]

Marketing Ethics 101:
If it looks good, it will sell, no matter what it is.



I haven't read all the posts but you got to take into mind that not everybody in this world looks at this forum. I bet over half of the people in professional paintball have heard of the two letters that directly links AGD to the consumer, AO.

Where am I getting at? Not all people think the way most AO'ers think. We don't care about fancy packaging, just the performance of the product and how well the product works. Hence the Automag, Minimag, Emag in its quite plain packaging, even though it is a great gun.

If AGD makes a box that is appealing to the eye, then people will be intriuged(sp?) because they will instantly think:"If the packaging is cool, then the marker might be too."

Examples: Make a fancy box= more sells. Make a fancy box+product+false myths of shooting distance=WGP. WGP has revamped the looks of the box, their marketing, their gun, etc. WGP sells are up...WAY UP. WDP has always made everything pleasing to the eye since the LED or was it the LCD and they have made big profits.

If AGD sells are good, the consumers benefit since that means more money for development of better and more products.
AGD, make a new box, make better marketing, and you will do better, from a business standpoint.



Yatta!

[Rooster]

I think the best way to approach the problem is the way AGD always has, give people something they will use. A cheapo plastic gun case is the best idea i've heard. Not only will it give you (customer) something useful, but it good be very useful to the company as well. No need to put packing material around your gun if you ever have to mail it, just drop the case in a box and send it. I also like the TK as ?Dave Thomas idea. I mean i consider him a paintball celeb, and i think the everyman ad campaign would be great for the mechanical markers.

[Ter-Me-Nate]

1st a box dont mean jack to me but,

i think the best idea is like someone said before

keep the same box,

and just have a cardboard slide over///sleve///, and just make it blue or somthing and slap on the agd lions symble in the middle

the one thats on the top of www.airgun.com

that should'nt be too expensive and would look sweet

anybody heard of bose speakers, well all there sales are almost all on ,,,hype,marketing, because for less money or the same amount you can buy a bad *** system that well blow it out of the water, and every day i talk to poeple that have never even heard bose speakers and they say
"ive allways wanted bose spekers they are the best"""

its a terrible truth in marketing""""it sells

[ramsee1]

I think a contest is a good idea. Of course I may be biased since I'm a package designer who happens to own a couple of mags.