Cocker Accuracy

[rudy]

I have been through this debate for years and I have several issues. I believe need testing. In paintball actual scientific test are rare and people really seem to shy away from them. they need to be done by independant people there is soon to come some regulator testing finally from an independant person that I think will be interesting.

Here is my problem with this cocker accuracy debate. How could a somethign completely false continue to thrive. I have talked to pros my self about this issue and many still feel the cocker is more accurate, but all shoot angels due to rate of fire and being sponsored.

We can get most guns to almost close to the same consistency and paint to barrel matches. so I dont think its just that. I think when the gun comes into the hands of the user there are 2 things that cause them to achieve better accuracy in practice. One of these is the balence and weight of the gun notice fast guns are usually lite and by itself back heavy. where more accurate guns like cockers are heavy and front heavy like a rifle it is easier to keep your gun on target.

this is also most likely where longer barrels appear to be more accurate and the same with stainless steel

the other issue is kick I think the kick/recoil of a gun is the biggest factor guns that have a unique slow kick and usually very little kick acheive this. when I shoot my angel and mag it bounces up and I can not very easily keep it aimed a the same spot in a string of shots. now look at guns that many people think are more accurate like shocker, cocker, matrix. all are low pressure bigger guns with a unique cycle.

take a sling shot and get a really tight band and a loose one and see which one is easier to aim and pull the one that is loose if you accelerate the shot slowly over a longer distance. you do not have a kick that is as abrupt and it is easier to keep on target.

anyhow just somethign to think about.

[TRIAD]

I will give in and say it is feel, i love the feel of my cocker, and the speed i can shoot it at, and mags are great too, and open bolt is great. Okay, I will not fight this any more, i just like cockers better, that's all, and a lot of you like mags, end of discussion, and I hope I never fight this again, it IS stupid to fight about it.

[DarkRipper]

Re: Personally, I'm pro-Mag.

Originally posted by dre1919

Years ago, when the Mag versus Cocker debate was in it's prime and you chose one of the two when buying a good "high level" marker I did a lot of research and chose Airgun. I did this because I didn't buy into the hype of which one shot farther or more accurate, I chose Mags becuase they have fewer parts than the Cocker and because you can run them over with a car and still have it work. IMHO, fewer parts equal less things to fix/replace. KISS method: Keep it simple stupid. I think that both the Cocker and Mag are excellent guns, and the differences in performance are minute in reality and grandiose in people's heads.

That's exactly the reason I bought a mag back in the day... simpler and less prone to breakage. Current cockers have come a LONG way in reliability...

Honestly, if the Cocker way of internal operation was the best shooting, most accurate way on the planet wouldn't the other manufacturers have just copied it to a "T" by now?

Well, considering there are more clones of the WGP cocker design than there are the AGD mag design (only one pops to mind, the desert fox by ICD) then your argument is sort of moot, isn't it?


Devil's advocate and all that.

DR

[FutureMagOwner]

those arent clones those are mill'ed and a few different part autocockers i dont think i know any retail(meaning made full time by a company) that works like a cocker(pumps itself with nuematics) at this time(maybe im wrong correct me on that


and the desert fox is blow foreward if im not mistaken but completly different in design

[rudy]

well aka makes the revenge adn i think they make every part, the odd thing about cockers they are mostly just milled cockers and soem go as far as makign bodies, but they all really are just cockers. most blowforward guns are the result of attempting to compete with agd, the ls2000, desert fox, equalizer, armson semi, side kick semi, and a european copy of the mag are all based on the blowforward design which was mostlikely an attemp to clone the mag.

on the other hand the cocker is really just a copy off palmers auto cocking system so thier are several other guns that use the same system but for soem reason are rarely associated with the cocker.

what this all comes down to is yes both guns have been copied and modified quite a bit. so i think all arguements on that issue can be dropped. the only difference is to my knowledge agd started the blowforward movement and was the mag was the original. the autococker was not the original it was a copy off of the guns palmer was making

[RRfireblade]

I say forget wasting time on this topic.No one is ever going to change anyone elses opinion.I say go get your Cocker, I got my Mag and lets all go eat pie.

[Snakebite78]

I say forget wasting time on this topic.No one is ever going to change anyone elses opinion.I say go get your Cocker, I got my Mag and lets all go eat pie.

Well put man, well put, PIE TIME!

[nutz]

Originally posted by RRfireblade
I say forget wasting time on this topic.No one is ever going to change anyone elses opinion.I say go get your Cocker, I got my Mag and lets all go eat pie.

That was powerfull

[rudy]

my pie taste better and fills you up faster then your pie

[RRfireblade]

My pie is more accurate than your pie,it goes right in your belly and never gets on your tie.Your pie breaks half the time before you get it off the spoon.Plus,all the Pros eat my pie so it must be the best or else they would be eating someone elses pie.

Finally a topic I can really sink my teeth into!

Jay.

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by FutureMagOwner
those arent clones those are mill'ed and a few different part autocockers i dont think i know any retail(meaning made full time by a company) that works like a cocker(pumps itself with nuematics) at this time(maybe im wrong correct me on that


and the desert fox is blow foreward if im not mistaken but completly different in design

You're splitting hairs.

They're clones of the original design. What's the definition of a clone?

Also, the desert fox is very close in design.

DR

[FutureMagOwner]

well im not too familiar withteh desert fox thats why i said if im not mistaken


what im saying is just because one guns a blow back and another is a blow back doesnt make one a clone of the other.(ie a tippy vs a spyder there 2 completly different blowbacks)

because i dont know too much about the desert fox assumed it didnt use valve similar too an air or retro valve and did use springs on the bolt(still dont know about the 2 things if someone would like to tell me that would be nice)

[mykroft]

FutureMagOwner:

What do you call the Sovereign and everything Palmer makes? They're all the same basic design as a cocker, evolved around the same time, but totally different in application. The Revenge V2 is a new Cocker clone, it takes a few cocker parts, but the body & trigger are fairly different, so is the Nanococker (PGP Semi conversion)

For Mag clones, there is the Desert Fox, that UK clone that Tom ran out of business (Blatant copy is more like it) and one of the semi paint pistols (Sidekick IIRC) is a Sydarm clone.

The main reason there are not many Blow-forwards is that the pump-conversion design is easy to do. It's a staple of airsmiths everywhere