Warped.... Mayhem???

[nicad]

sniper1rfa-

the vent your talking about, in both of my mayhems (V2's), there is a hole in the location your talking about- but it goes nowhere!!(that i can see). there is a setscrew coming in from the outside which cuts off the hole. even without the setscrew, the hole dead ends. I may be missing something, but that hole/screw make no sence to me.. :-/

I measured the piston and power tube length last night.. looks like there will be just enough room to fit everything for its own lil "L3". I dont know if you have had a chance to work on it any- I was all geared up to build it yesterday, but then company came over..
now ill be away all weekend. Ill be watching the thread if you come upon anything over the weekend.. otherwise ill work on it monday and see how it does..

yes im sorry my description in my second post was horrible.. :-p
when i get the time ill try to draw up the springless 6gram bolt setup..

out!

[sniper1rfa]

well, thats just wierd. i always assumed that it was a second vent to the bolt chamber, but now that i think about it, that wouldnt do anything. wierd. i am probably going to do it today, but i need to get a few more springs made.

uh oh, problem. the little piston will have to have a one way o-ring set up also. otherwise, the air will not vent from behind the big piston part one the little piston seals on the way back.

[paintbattler]

thats awesome..u need to melt your hopper

[sniper1rfa]

IT WORKS! sorta... i made a "prototype" out of 1/2" s/s capillary tubing (9/32 ID) and a turned down nylon 1/4-28 1/2" stand-off. i polished the inside of the tubing and then slowly turned down the stand-off till if fit snugly in the tubing (i turned the standoff with a screw in it so it didnt deform and got a good fit). popped the tubing in with some purple loc-tite and screwed the stand-off onto the piston. gassed it up and the bolt came foward realllllly slow. took it back apart and realized the stupid vent is off-set, so i filed a slot in the tubing to allow the gas to get in. put it back together and gassed it up again. cycles fine, but the bolt doesnt return all the way. i think i make have to make a complicated little on/off in the piston, a little ball valve would probably work.

the bolt pressure, however, is just about perfect, though maybe slightly too little. the idea does work though.
BTW, i tested it in cocker mode.


OOPS... found out why the bolt didnt return... the o-ring on the piston was purple loc-tited to its face on the piston. guess that means i wont have to put a one-way in ( i didnt in the first place).
works fine now, besides the fact that the pressure steadily increase because of the fact that the stand-off is not great for a make-shift o-ring.

[nicad]

very cool! i knew it all had to work-- I saw it working in my head at least..

need to go ahead and just re-make the piston tho i think..
how long did your first stage end up being? if ya just used the length of the threaded tip of the piston, that cant be much more than 1/4"..?

sorry for the silence-- my weekend ended up being quite a bit longer than expected.. :-/

BTW- the vent hole is offset.. lol

out!

[sniper1rfa]

precisely 1/2", though i may make it shorter when i make a nicer one, this one was sorta proof-of-concept. i just used the threaded part to hold the stand-off on so i didnt have to make another poston.

i think i am also going to see if i cant get leon to change the stock mayhem so that the vent is centered and about twice as big, to recharge 4 times as fast. the current vent is just too tiny. makes the gun slow.

oh btw, i tried it with the stock spring, no dice, it didnt move much at all (a five pound wieght compresses the spring a little under 1/4", and its already compressed that far when the gun is idle, so i had a 2 pound difference between spring and piston. the bol9t didnt move far enough to pop).

[nicad]

yeah that hole is offset to give more room for the aplifier(sideways) spool.. Im sure it could all be compressed some and the hole be moved to the center.. but it would require re-tooling for machining the spool's ring-port inside, as well as a new shorter spool. :-/ but I wonder why all that wasnt done in the first place...?!

anywho.. ya have any word on PGI's own mod that Kristen's Mayhem has on it already (the cover of July APG)?

If your still doing runs on your spring.. send a couple my way. PM me info for payment, etc..
cant wait cant wait cant wait to get home and working on this thing again..

out!

[sniper1rfa]

ah, sorry, just sent for a run, though maybe i can work something out...

actually, it would require any retooling(except the one hole, which could be done as the same size as like a screw hole) as such, just a change in some CNC code. im bet i could get him to prototype one or two though... show him how much faster and easier to operate the gun would be.

no clue about that mod, i cant get anything out of him. meh, itll come out sooner or later.

[nicad]

i swear this week is out to kill me and keep me from working on my mayhem.. :-/

ok well i finally had a chance to scratch out some diagrams of my origional idea (warning very horrible MSPaint drawing atached!). its much more complicated than your L3, and requires modifications to the body.. but i still think it would be the most effienct running as for gas useage.

legend:
Red = sleve bolt
Blue = power tube + outter shell for bolt (would almost have to be made out of two pieces and assembled..
grey = mayhem front body piece. has a new oring groove in it for sealing off the bolt prior to the breach.

the front area of the blue part (outter shell) would be fed a constant 100psi piped in from the back mayhem body part via a small tube. this pressure acts as the spring to push the bolt back. when the chamber is pressureized, it has access to the back of the bolt, and since it has a larger surface area to push against, it will eventually overcome the same pressure holding the bolt back and push it forward.

Iv built all this so far. I havent had the time to figure out how to connect the blue part to the grey part and keep it sealed.

the piston coming from the back would only be working in its backmost .25" throw.. saving much wasted air. it would seal into the chamfered(spl?) part of the back end of the blue power tube. when fired, it would pull back away from the back of the power tube and dump all the chamber pressure out through the power tube.

a coupla notes-- there would also need to be a sealing disk somewhere which goes out to the origional mayhem body to seal off the front section of the chamber. it would have to be placed in a position which results in the optimal amount of chamber air volume. And oh yes this is my 100th post.. weee!!

out!

[sniper1rfa]

there are only two problems i can see with that design.
dues to having to keep the sleeve strong and blunt enough to not chop a ball, it would probably have to be about and 1/16" thick (youve already made this, how thick is it? maybe a little thicker?...). then with an o-ring to seal the inside of this would make the blue part have to be another 1/16 (this time more like 1/8). this only leaves about 1/4 or a little more to vent into the barrel. this may not lead to sufficiant velocity with your AA.

the other is unless there is very, very little area one the sleeve, your gunna get some massive blow-back, though maybe not (i assume there is not much in the way of scale in that drawing...). seems like it would be easier just to seal that whole bit off and use a spring.

that and it makes 2 more dynamic seals and 1 more static one (for the return vent type thing). though this isnt really a problem if you use good o-rings.

other than that, I like it, though i think i am going to stick with mine, as i dont feel like machining anything like that.

[nicad]

I would agree about going with a return spring, except that springs are progressive, and at ~6lbs pushing the bolt forward, the spring would be changing drasticaly over an inch of travel. i havent run any numbers, but i think it would throw things too far off. :-/

about dimensions.. yes the picture was sloped out with no real scale. the blue powertube IRL ended up being 1/2" OD and almost 3/8" ID (where the air would have to flow through). this should be enough flow (possibly?).
the bolt is right at 1/32" thick walls. pretty freaking thin. but its at this thinkness you get down to ~6Lbs pressure @ the 100psi.

for reference, all the o-rings in the drawing are 1/16" diameter.

all in all.. ill never have the time to finish this thing. till then, the little "Hoover" will just have to be happy with the cool, simple L3..

out!

[sniper1rfa]

thats true, i was thinking that as i was typing about the springs, but remember, so would your little air return, probably actually a noticable amount. but hey, whatever.

of course, i still like mine better, cause it works, right here, right now. bang bang pop bang bang aaaaaahahahahahahaa pssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh....
SH**!



and guess what, of 26 posts, only 7 are by somebody besides me an' you.

[RT_Luver]

i while back ago at my field they had a Nova for sale. that thing was FUGLY. ahd to be the ulgiest thing I've ever seen....SERIOUSLY. it had like a freak barrel on it or something. kinda odd.

[nicad]

ok.. time to revive the thread.. sniper1rfa wake up!! hehe
i cant believe i just now got around to working on this.. and i still havent gotten the MO out for your spring.. sorry. will soon!

did everything as planned. works like... poop!
made a new piston out of delrin. placed an oring on the back end of it (3/8" OD) and moved the main one-way oring up a little. inserted an aluminum 1/2" OD x 3/8" ID down into the powertube. drilled into the body and put a setscrew so that it clamps the sleeve in place. overall 1st stage travel is .375".

the poopie part-
as the piston is in 1st stage, it is moving the bolt forward while the main chamber is still sealed. since the bolt's plunger area is soo much larger than the 1st stage area, its creating a major vacuume in the main chamber as the bolt moves forward. with my (stock?) spring setup and a 3/8"D 1st stage area, the bolt hase a very hard time getting past the 1st stage..

sooo.. to take care of the vacuume, iv decided a way to fix it would be to make the bolt's plunger be one-way as well..
i think simply drilling some small holes through in the bottom of the bolt's o-ring groove would do it.. look for an upadte this evening hopefully..

out!

[sniper1rfa]

zzzzzzzzzz*snort*...
huh, whu? oh, you again.

never thought of that. mine didnt do that probably because it was all leaky. well, when i make the final one i will be sure to make the big piston one way.

definately tell me how it turns out.