Concerns with extreme emag

**paintslinger** · 09-26-2002, 09:27 PM

well 150 emags this year isn't that bad...i mean theres only like 4 months left and they are winter months where playing decreases. so when agd starts pumping out the xtremes in jan that'll be great for the start of tourney season...and it also gives broke guys like myself more time to save money so he can get his hands on one.

**aaron_mag** · 09-26-2002, 11:10 PM

They also have to produce all the other stuff they make. They can't just produce extremes and forget the rest.

I disagree with you. One of the great things about AGD is that they really want to make sure that a product is good before the sell it. Not just slap it together and sell them as quickly as possible. I have a JT Excellerator 4.0 as a loaner/family marker. The thing was cheap, a steal on Ebay. I couldn't resist. It was obvious, however, the thing had been slapped together. I had to make some adjustments to it to be able to tune the velocity. The thing is still kind of quirky.

Now lets take Level 10. The darn thing WORKED. You think about the complexity of a mod to fit all AGD markers and consider that it worked for me so easily it is just amazing. It was obvious they had put time and thought into it.

My point is that it takes time to do things right. It would not serve AGD to produce a bunch of Extremes and have everyone complaining that they were full of bugs and sucked!! They are already sold out of the first production run. The fact that people will pay over $1000 for a marker they have never shot has already been proven. They are willing to trust that AGD will stand behind their product.

Whew. Too long winded. Sorry.

**P4ULuk** · 09-27-2002, 12:43 AM

Who will pay 1000+ for a marker they've never seen? How about all the pre-ordered IR3's not to mention CLASS,Mamba etc....
Also I did just that, I'd never even held an Emag b4 let alone shoot one!

Paul

**Jack & Coke** · 09-27-2002, 01:14 AM

All mag owners and open-minded non-mag owners know what a great product AGD can produce...

But I'll be honest with you. AGD has a bad image out there.

9 out of 10 comments or looks I get whenever I bust out my mag in a paintball store are anti-mag. Whether it's "blender", "no distance", "no accuracy", "too heavy", "too high pressure", "no consistancy", etc. I hear it all. Even after I teach them about my lvl 10 and demonstrate to them my 18-20+ bps sweetspotting ReTro, I still see heads shaking left to right with comments like, "...I don't know... I still would get an Angel or a Cocker over a MAG. Besides, you never see them in tournaments anyways..."

See what we have to deal with?

Momentum, myths, and hype are very powerful factors in todays paintball world. Timing is everything.

If AGD fails to deliver, they will miss the boat, and lose a lot of potential business. Only the faithfull and open-minded like us will understand and appreciate the high degree of performance and engineering that exists in a mag product... especially the XMAG!

Snooky has a good point.

Look at Bob Long. The hype and sneak peeks of the GZ Timmy came out last year. Shorty after, they began producing like crazy. They've successfully caught their wave of hype and fame and rode it into the minds of everyone this last year because they were able to deliver a great product. If Bob only released 150 new Timmies this last year, do you think "Intimidator" would be mentioned as much as "Angel" or "Cocker"?

I dig all my guns - My GZ is sweet and kicks butt! My M98RT is really really fun... But my MAG is special to my heart, and I wish more people would be able to appreciate how well the XMAG is engineered and will perform.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to do that when there's no product available.

Like the Dodgers and Lakers (or insert your fav team here), I always root for AGD to do well... win or lose.

**TEN** · 09-27-2002, 06:32 AM

At Campaign Cup we could see the extreme in action, many teams including Hardcore (Reffing field 7) asked to try it.
(Hardcore won the overall AM division in the Millennium Series and are going PRO next year).

And Bob Long..... Dang is he good with the squeege or what? In one game it never left his hand. It was like looking at a guy using a frontloading marker. Now I never looked at him all the time but everytime I did he was working with the squeege.

**cphilip** · 09-27-2002, 06:52 AM

Snooky, I too am a bit concerned with Product availability at the most critical point like this. I too have worried about the opportunity lost and ability for AGD to take advantage before the fever subsided. And I would even bet money on it that Tom is too. But it seems nothing can be done about it. It's a bit too big a task to get more than 150 of them done it seems for a small company. But yes...I too am concerned.

**luke** · 09-27-2002, 07:01 AM

Another probelem i see is who is gonna buy a gun for 1000+ they have never shot.

People will buy them, fact is the 150 that are being made are already sold out.

I understand it takes time to make the extremes as they are all handmade but it is not feasable to have only 150 extremes out for this year

We have a 2nd batch in progress now but it takes 3 months to cycle the parts through

As you can see Tom is working on the second batch now, that's not too bad. 150 might not sound like much to you, think about the "grip" of cash Tom has to invest in 150 guns, it's a lot more that you might think. Also, don't you think if it were possible to "produce" more he would?

**cphilip** · 09-27-2002, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by luke
...Also, don't you think if it were possible to "produce" more he would?

You can bet your sweet behind he would!

**shartley** · 09-27-2002, 07:26 AM

**shartley** · 09-27-2002, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by aaron_mag
They also have to produce all the other stuff they make. They can't just produce extremes and forget the rest.

I disagree with you. One of the great things about AGD is that they really want to make sure that a product is good before the sell it. Not just slap it together and sell them as quickly as possible. I have a JT Excellerator 4.0 as a loaner/family marker. The thing was cheap, a steal on Ebay. I couldn't resist. It was obvious, however, the thing had been slapped together. I had to make some adjustments to it to be able to tune the velocity. The thing is still kind of quirky.

Now lets take Level 10. The darn thing WORKED. You think about the complexity of a mod to fit all AGD markers and consider that it worked for me so easily it is just amazing. It was obvious they had put time and thought into it.

My point is that it takes time to do things right. It would not serve AGD to produce a bunch of Extremes and have everyone complaining that they were full of bugs and sucked!! They are already sold out of the first production run. The fact that people will pay over $1000 for a marker they have never shot has already been proven. They are willing to trust that AGD will stand behind their product.

Whew. Too long winded. Sorry.

**MagDog68** · 09-27-2002, 08:05 AM

Originally posted by shartley
I for one would like to see more RT Pros out on the field. You know, I have seen plenty of E-Mags, but few RTPs out there. I know they HAVE to be there (I also know some AO members in my neck of the woods own them too) but just saying that I have not SEEN them when playing at organized fields.

The RTP is like the middle child - not the old reliable or the new shiney marker. Think about it, most people would go the few extra hundred for the E-Mag or they will just upgrade their 68Automags. You can pick up a used emag for the cost of a new RTP for goodness sake!

I'm not saying that the gun is dead, I just don't see the market for that gun surviving too much longer. People just don't want a high level mechanical gun anymore unless it says "cocker" after the "auto" part. Maybe the new proto bodies will make it a more attractive buy.

~Fred

PS Oh yeah - I thought the 150 production number was a bit odd too. I mean the people buying these things are most likely AGD'aholics anyway. We need fresh blood to get their hands on these guns - hence we need more than a paltry 150!

**cphilip** · 09-27-2002, 08:10 AM

I sure do...its my "rainy day" marker.

They certainly sell enough cockers. And with the upgrades planned for it with aluminum bodies there is your head to head competion. It certainly puts any of them to shame.

**luke** · 09-27-2002, 08:17 AM

:)
shartley,
I partially agree with you in terms of production, after all it's the business I've been in for the past 12 years, I understand it well and frankly I'm good at it. But, it's Tom's busness not ours.

There are always way's to produce more, whether it's from reorganizing the way you are currently doing things, investing money in better equipment, or hiring more people. One thing to keep in mind is that he uses outside "contractors (as far as I know) to build/ manufacture the individual peace's, so your partially at the mercy of them. Sure there are ways around those problems, but for what ever reason(s) Tom has chosen a number for production he feels is feasible.

As far as the money is concerned, (if it is a concern, perhaps it was a little presumptuous on my part) that really is a little to personal to say much about. Everyone has a different opinion on what is the best way to spend or invest their money, whether it's business or personal. So, too say someone should go deeper than what they are comfortable doing isn't right.

Boy I hope I didn't pick a fight with shartley, if so I concede right now. (i don't type very fast.)

**luke** · 09-27-2002, 08:25 AM

shartley,
You/aaron_mag made a great point, in that they have more going one than just this one product. Perhaps it's time to expand. After all, if you want to be a world leader you will need a large support group.

Concerns with extreme emag

Concerns with extreme emag

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