Avalanche Allegedly Caught Cheating and Thrown out of WC

[sygyzy]

And they think paintball is ready for the Olympics. HA!

[Miscue]

Make teams wear white cotton gloves and such.

I lost my fire for PB because of rampant cheating. I'm anal on what paint I use too because of it... only using Anarchy or heavy marking paint. I also have little issue with the occassional bonus ball when necessary... harder to wipe.

I dunno if you can keep people from cheating... I think the answer is inventing means to make it difficult to cheat.

[ogre55]

Originally posted by Cliffio
yes, some pros do cheat, if you ever watch some movies you will see it happen if you watch closly. ive seen a few players get hit in the hand off the break (back players) so as they continue to their bunkers they reach down for their squeegy, and all the sudden the hand hit is gone


Cliff

You don't have to look to hard. FON's film of IAO games has close ups of pro players getting hit in the mask and still playing.

Honestly when I saw that film, I figured that this was the worse case of cheating I have ever seen. Too bad I was wrong. At this point, I would hate to be a member of Avalanche. Even if there will be no more suspensions or censures coming from the NPPL/PSP, from this point on, Avalanche and all the players on the team will be playing under a cloud.

There is no way to prove who, if anyone, knew about Salm's actions beforehand, which, for the other memebers of Avalanche is even worse. If there was solid evidence that players X, Y and Z knew, and no else on the team did, then X,Y and Z will have to deal with it, and everyone else on the team can move on.

But with the situation as it stands, every Avalance player will be under suspicion for the rest of their careers. If you were a sponser, would you want your product associated with these guys? This is going to hit them where it hurts, in the pocketbook.

Ogre

[hitech]

Originally posted by AGD
I find it interesting that the rules call it a foul if you wipe a hit but when its done against you it's suddenly "cheating". When your own players wipe "it's how you play the game".
AGD

What bothers me is that we have gone backwards. When I quit reffing/playing tournaments if you continued to play after you were hit you were penalized. You were responsible for knowing you were hit and leaving the game. We need to make the players responsible for their actions.

[BTAutoMag]

thats so uncool. any true pro would never cheat

[Load SM5]

What sucks as well is that is shadowed the wins by Manny and the boys. Shock took first in the 10 man and the 5 man in case that was missed.

[blnk162]

We were avalanche's last game of the day on thursday and belived that we were victims of the sniper also, just didn't think anything of it, just that we were out played by a pro team.

On field 6 we got to the 50 dorito within the first 2 minutes of the game, our player than posted on Rab who was in the snake.....our player was shot in the back of the head.

2nd player was playing back tape can on woods and took a hopper hit on the side....

3rd player was in the taco by the snake sitting tight in his bunker and looking at the angles with mask pressed against sup air bunker and got gogged....before rusty had taken the rocket

Our last player was in the rocket and did a run through and bunkered out rusty on the opposite side who didnt evn shoot at him and threw his gun, then shot in field and shot another lanche player and then got ripped up the right side of his body without a lanche player in the back corner.....

Needless to say the game went 14 minutes and we shot 5 of them and got sniped....what a great "pro" team

[blnk162]

Originally posted by Cliffio
what a freakin idiot

halb, they didnt have a sub, ed had to play in his place, and as we all know ed is retired

Actually....when we played them knop and rocky sat, and ed was on the field.....


Im sure that Jeremy was givin an ultimatum by ed of 50 grand or so to do it and take the fall.....

Nothing will happen to avalanche Ed has A LOT of pull being on the psp commitee

Also id like to say if people were banned for 5 years or a year for cheating like you all want we wouldnt have nppl/psp events.

[thei3ug]

I love how everyone is so fast to judge Ed and the rest onf Lanche without being there, or seeing what happened. You all assume ed bought his way out of more trouble.

But every pro team does it. In some cases it's one player ruining it for the rest. in others it is planned.

The "sniper" incident happened at other events, and not by avalanche, but nothing was done.

Teams went on with adjusted guns to cheat chronographs, or to fire more than semi, and weaseled their way out of it.

But Avalanche got caught. and now we all hate them.

[MagDog68]

Paintball is not an honest industry

I am sorry to say it, but paintball is just not an honest industry. Maybe that sounds harsh, but how many of us have seen obvious cheating go unchallenged by the powers that be? This latest incident just goes to show how lame duck the NPPL is. Any other professional organization would have banned Jeremy Salm for life and certainly would investigate deeper into all the games Avalanche took part in. Who knows how many other teams fell victim to this sort of underhandedness?

With no legitimate watchdog group ensuring the integrity of any paintball event or product we will continue to see pathetic displays such as this in every major paintball competition.

There needs to be an organization totally unaffiliated with paintball companies and marketing dollars that can check for honesty and integrity in this sport.

~Fred

[ogre55]

Originally posted by Laser
If they want to get rid of a good percentage of the cheating have more refs. Each ref beeing responsible for 1 or 2 players each

HEAR, HEAR.

Unfortunately, this may not be as easy as it sounds. There is a great article in APG (and I say this with much consideration, as I find very few things great about APG of late), about what reffs have to go through. As someone who has done some reffing in the past, I agree with many of the things stated in this article regarding the stuff that reffs have to deal with from players, field owners and everyone else.

Ogre

[1stdeadeye]

Questions

If Ed is "retired", why did he have all his gear there ready to go?

Where did Ninja-Boy Salm get his Matrix? Was it his? Did it belong to a team member?

If this was a long distance trip to Florida and Avalanche was staying in a hotel and N-B Salm was sick, who was supposed to drive him back to the hotel?

If he was supposed to take the rental car himself, how was Avalanche supposed to get to the hotel? They couldn't have each had there own rental car.

[Spaceman613]

Too bad SPPLAT (Society of Paintball Players and Teams)cant take the lead and help out. Id like to see players in the correct divisions. Im not a fan of sandbagging, and I seem to see it too often. SPPLAT could be a great organization to help all of the leagues. AND possibly help with uniform rules.

I am disgusted with cheating, no matter who does it. lanche got caught. How many dont get caught? How many have the balls to expose a team member? I know I have told my team members that I wont tolerate it, and they better not either. Id rather lose fair, than win by cheating.

now about who can enforce cheating.... We can, and hopefully we can show the manufacturers and sponsors that we wont support products that support cheaters.

[ShooterJM]

Originally posted by thei3ug
I love how everyone is so fast to judge Ed and the rest onf Lanche without being there, or seeing what happened. You all assume ed bought his way out of more trouble.

But every pro team does it. In some cases it's one player ruining it for the rest. in others it is planned.

The "sniper" incident happened at other events, and not by avalanche, but nothing was done.

Teams went on with adjusted guns to cheat chronographs, or to fire more than semi, and weaseled their way out of it.

But Avalanche got caught. and now we all hate them.

Well first of all that's a broad generalization. We don't ALL think that Ed bought his way out of trouble.

Yes, almost every pro team cheats. I'm an equal opportunity hater. You cheat, I hate you equally.

I'm curious as to what other events that this has happened at and who's suspected of it? Don't "kitty"foot around man, if you know of other cases that aren't hear say, spit it out.

Gun modes, etc. Yeah, that happens at rec ball. When's the last time anyone has seen ANY ref pop open a gun to check to see if it has a legal chip. Let alone check the software.

It all comes down to serious enforcment.

[MagDog68]

Originally posted by thei3ug
I love how everyone is so fast to judge Ed and the rest onf Lanche without being there, or seeing what happened. You all assume ed bought his way out of more trouble.

But every pro team does it. In some cases it's one player ruining it for the rest. in others it is planned.

The "sniper" incident happened at other events, and not by avalanche, but nothing was done.

Teams went on with adjusted guns to cheat chronographs, or to fire more than semi, and weaseled their way out of it.

But Avalanche got caught. and now we all hate them.

the13ug-
This is a fairly elementary argument - but my rebuttal is, "why bother playing if you look at it that way?"

Your contention is that everyone else cheats so why punish Avalanche because they got caught? I think if you even need to ask that question you have a serious moral quandary over there. Why bother having any rules at all if that is the way you look at it?

Maybe the pro level is only concerned with a points total and a sponsorship contract, but it would be nice to think that the NPPL made the best 5 or 10 man team win - not the team with the best "backwoods sniper".

As for blaming Avalanche, when was the last time you heard a coach say there is no "I" in team? Why is it when something is done right it is the "Team" but when something is done wrong it is the individual? Avalanche is responsible for the actions of its players and as such it should be banned from competition for a long time.

~Fred