Avalanche Allegedly Caught Cheating and Thrown out of WC

[hitech]

Originally posted by benzy2
We have so harsh rules (penalties) as is for breaking rules...No other mainstream sport plays with no minor penalties.

One of the problems with having too severe a penalty is that it rarely is "awarded". The penalty needs to be severe enough to discourage the infraction, small enough that it is "awarded" EVERY time the infraction is committed.

BTW, it is my understanding that Salm worked for Ed and has now lost his job. That is probably a more severe punishment than any sort of ban.

[shartley]

Originally posted by hitech
BTW, it is my understanding that Salm worked for Ed and has now lost his job. That is probably a more severe punishment than any sort of ban.

Interesting.... what exactly did he do for Ed? Was it related to WC? Was it related to the Team? If not, it brings up some interesting legal issues......

[hitech]

I don't know the format of the event, but would it have been possible to eject the team from the torunament and "void" of the games they played?

If so, that should have happened.

[Load SM5]

I'm pretty sure thats exactly what happened.

[manike]

I'm gutted by a lot of this as I class Jeremy and all of Avalanche as friends, but not overly suprised knowing what some teams will do to win...

Originally posted by shartley
Interesting.... what exactly did he do for Ed? Was it related to WC? Was it related to the Team? If not, it brings up some interesting legal issues......

Jeremy 'used' to work for Warped Sports I'm not sure in exactly what capacity but at quite a high level. I think he may have run one of their store branches?

I expect the contract would have a clause about bringing the company into disrepute which allowed Ed to fire him under such conditions.

I know of a lot more rumours about this also, but see it as little good to help spread them if there is no validation to them, which under the circumstances there can not be.

I hope Avalanche recover from this as they are quite a group of guys who I am priveleged to have spent time with. I know this will have gutted a lot of them.

manike

[hitech]

Originally posted by shartley

Interesting.... what exactly did he do for Ed? Was it related to WC? Was it related to the Team? If not, it brings up some interesting legal issues......

I don't know. I was talking to Dennis at Centerflag and he told the that Salm worked for Ed and had just moved "down there". He told me he let him go. You could always call Dennis at Centerflag. He seems to love to talk paintball, esp with us "old timers". At least he did with me.

[ShooterJM]

Originally posted by Trigger_Happy
A football player who knifes his opposition to death doesn't get a 10 yard penalty!

Nope...he gets off without a hitch and they make him MVP if I remember correctly....

[banzaimf]

Apparently. Wicked Sports will not be producing a Dark Matrix. And I commend Ed for even replying to an email asking for one.

[1stdeadeye]

Hold On A Minute!!

Originally posted by ShooterJM


Nope...he gets off without a hitch and they make him MVP if I remember correctly....

Ray Lewis was never accused of stabbing anyone. He pled guilty to Obstruction of Justice charges. He was also suspended and fined by the league.

Rae Carruth on the other hand was caught and will never see daylight again!

Salm was caught red handed too. I think the death penalty for this infraction is just a tad bit severe.

Apples to apples....

[benzy2]

ok for the guy who told me people dont cuss in other sports. Have you ever sat by a football coach, baseball coach, or a coach in any other sport where a ref/ump has the ability to make a judgement call. Pro baseball players tell the refs everyword in the book. football coaches tell the refs they are ******* dumb***** that have no ******* brain. I mean dont think they dont. Also what does shooting paint and stabbing have to do with anything. i mean in football if you have a 12th man run out and sack the qb you get a penelty. That player may be kicked out of one game. Yes in baseball pitchers cheat by putting different things on the ball like vasoline. They get tossed for that game. Basketball players throw elbows that give concussions. I think a little brain damage is worse then a welt in the back. I mean if you people think getting shot in the back in one game deserves a life time ban you are out in lalaland. Pro football players can abuse their wives, assult other men, get cuaght with tons of drugs and just pay a fine and sometimes get kicked off a team till next year. These are criminal actions that get less punishment then you are suggesting. I think the guy is an *** but the people who ran the event should have seen the possibility for someone to do that. When i looked at the aerial shoot i thought it would be fun to camp in the woods while games where playing.
on the cheating part it happens to every sport. It hasnt been removed in football, hockey, baseball. Oh yeah how many of those bats are drilled and filled with weights. I think it might have been cal ripkin(i dont remember but it was someone i respected) that broke a bat and marbles went everywhere. They tossed him for that game and he payed a slight fine and was right back the next game. Baseball players can have a hughe bench clearing fight and they will be suspended for 2-15 game. not life. Pete rose did get kicked out for good. But that is the only guy i know of.

rudy does a early rush of a feildgoal kicker that breaks his leg not have an impact on the game. Or the time where the late hit puts the qb out of the game. or the clipping that pulls a muscle in the best freesafety in the league. all of thes get you a 15 yard penelty max but change the outcome of the game. also why does anyone cheat. Pure and simple to win. A guy doesnt cheat to do worse. It is to win. So his cheating does have reason. To win.

I liked the mike Tyson analogy. I mean that guy intentionally took part of an ear off and now he goes to fight in england. This guy didnt do anything that someone in the dead box couldnt do. I just dont think his actions were bad enough to ban him for life. it was 50 shots maybe. Not like we all havent had 50 extra hits from overfire in our entire carrers. He should be punished and he should face fines and probationary messures. He didnt injure anyone. he did less in his action physically then a lineman does in one play.
Know if i was to play him i would put a few extra in the air just to get the point accross that i wont put up with it when i am playing. In nascar if you put everyone into the wal the group will eventually put you into the wall. it is just a matter as to how long it will take.

[50 cal]

There will always be cheaters in any sport. Some get caught, some don't. Paintball is the worst place to find the cheats, the action is so fast and there isn't enough refs.
Will we need boundary refs now? Will the tournament directors be willing to pay some schmoe to sit on the outside boundaries to monitor them? I don't think so. Most tourny directors use the reffs very sparingly, it seems they only have them to say "We have refs." They wouldn't use them at all if they didn't have to.
Paintball is all about protecting what's yours. Forget the other guys, just as long as I get my slice and I can screw the other guy out of his. That is the main reason I don't do tournament ball anymore. If your team can whine enough, or throw their, what they think, is the weight of their status as manufacturers or distributors around to get their way, they will do it. Tournament ball is truly pathetic anymore.

Just sign me,

Playing rec ball and loving it!

[Timmee]

I think one thing a promoter can do to prevent this exact type of cheating again is to FULLY enclose the fields. I also agree that the promoters should put into place a tougher penalty system to prevent cheating. One idea is to issue penalty points for cheating. Once a team has accrued a certain amount of penalty points, they get penalized (maybe force the team to play one game without a full roster). Once a team has been penalized, for every other penalty point they accrue, they get one less player on the field for the next game. The number of penalty points allowed before a team is penalized should be low, maybe 3.

Anyway, this is one possible suggestion to reduce the cheating in pro paintball. Feel free to poke holes in my idea, add your own, or make comments.

[Rooster]

Forget points, if someone on your roster gets caught cheating that guy gets an automatic life ban, and the team gets a one year ban. Second offence the team is gone for good. That goes for any cheating caught on the field.


That would solve the problem real fast.

[ogre55]

Originally posted by Rooster
Forget points, if someone on your roster gets caught cheating that guy gets an automatic life ban, and the team gets a one year ban. Second offence the team is gone for good. That goes for any cheating caught on the field.


That would solve the problem real fast.

The only "problem" that type of knee-jerk reaction would "solve" is the death of the entire tourny circuit. Teams will still cheat, and with penalties like that, teams will disappear as fast as they appear.

All will agree that what Salm did is attrocious. It is, to the best of my knowledge, the worst known case of cheating in tounry ball. But should the penalty be so severe as to ruin, not only one career, but the careers of all the members of Avalanche? That is something we should all consider before we scream to the heavens for the ignomious demise of Salm and Avalanche.

I have an interesting team penalty. Why not force Avalanche to play minus one or more men for the next X number of NPPL tounries they enter? It's akin to hokey penalties, so there is a precedant in organized sport. It's severe, severly handicapping cheating teams, but it allows those teams to continue competing.

What do you think?

Ogre

[rikkter]

timmee. basically like the xball rules.

trigger happy.
knifing up someone. and shooting them w ith a paintball gun is no where even close to being the same.
knifing oppenent isn't cheating in anyway.
what that guy did was cheating.
hes screwed out of paintball. no team will pick him up, no rookie team no amaerture (ah spelling)
hes pretty much screwed. he'll most likely never will be seen in nppl again.

what more do you guys want them to do??