PC insanity at DDay game...

[ogre55]

After reading this thread, I just have a few comments. To equate actions of allied soldiers to the actions of Axis NATIONS is ridiculous. There were atrocities committed on the parts of the allies. But these were committed by individual soldiers or units, these were not the policies of the Allies as Nation/States. In contrast the policy of the Germans was called Final Solution and we all know what they were talking about. The stated policies of the Japanese were somewhat less barbaric, simple conquest, but their actions and methods, like the Rape of Nanking and mass subjegation and mistreatement of the Chinese and the Koreans was no less awful.

Let's not play that age old PC game of moral relativism. Especcially on a thread that seems to be anti-PC.

As for the policy of the proprietors of the D-Day event, I don't agree. In the context of a re-enactment of the D-Day invasion why not allow those who enjoy war reeantments to participate to the fullest.

For the person who stated that the swastika is a symbol that has been used by many different cultures for many years, yes it has. The Buhhdists (sp) use it, and that is possibly the most peaceful of all religeons/ideaologies. However the tilted black swastika, in a white circle, on a red background only means one thing. It's all a matter of context.

Webby: As for a film of the German soldier's struggle in WWII, may I suggest you hunt up the film Stalingrad. It's a German film with Hollywood production values and an excellant and honest portayal of what the Germans faced, both from the Russians and from their own leaders.

For a portrayal of the other side, the Russians, see Enemy at the Gates. While the film focuses on the exploits of Russian sniper Vasilly Zaitsev the opening sequence is an excellant portrayal of the what the Russian soldiers faced from the Germans and their own leaders.

Ogre

[Webmaster]

ogre55 - Im more interested in a film about the struggles of civilian resistence and clandestine operations carried out by underground movements in countries occupied by the Germans.

There are plenty of war documentaries to show the struggles of the allies, russians, and germans through the various battles.

[oldsoldier]

webby, look into foreign films. There werent really alot of resistence movements...they were relatively small, and designed to disrupt the daily life of the occupiers.
I read a story, about occupied France, about a group of artists that regularly put on anti-German plays above a bar! The Nazis never found out about it! Actually, now that I think about it, that may have been a movie and not a book.
but as far as resistence went, other than blowing railroads and the occasional driveby, it was mostly intelligence gathering and information dissemintation. Check out books about the OSS and their Brit counterparts (I forgot5 the name). These may help point you in the right direction. And look at the Rat Patrol in Africa...these Brits really were a thorn in Germany's side! Some of the stuff those folks pulled off was just amazing!

[Doobie]

I have played the last two D-Day games in OK and enjoyed myself a lot! This is the thing...there were some people that took the german thing a little too far. It was obvious they were racits that were exploiting the game in order to wear there colors. It left a small but still bad taste in my mouth afterwards. Realize I said SOME not all. It was easy to tell the re-enactors from the racits. The fact that this thread is even here suggests that something is wrong with allowing them. I had a hard time sitting in front of my tent as an ATV came screaming by with a guy yellin "Heil Hitler" and waving a large Swastika around. I am an american soldier who plays this game for fun and to pay tribute to my great uncle. It will still be fun without the Swastika. If it is not...maybe you need to re-evaluate why you play the event.
My 2cents...let the flaming comence.

[oldsoldier]

Nah doobie, youre right. Some idiots just take it too far. Unfortunately, it seems its the younger crowd. Most dont even understand where the whole Nazi Party idea originated.



EDIT: by most people i meant the followers of that ideology.

[ogre55]

Originally posted by Webmaster
ogre55 - Im more interested in a film about the struggles of civilian resistence and clandestine operations carried out by underground movements in countries occupied by the Germans.

I don't know about movies, but there are more than a few books on the uprising in the Warsaw ghetto. I am sure there are some films about the exploits of the French Resistance under the Vichy Regime.

Ogre

[ogre55]

Originally posted by oldsoldier
[B]but as far as resistence went, other than blowing railroads and the occasional driveby, it was mostly intelligence gathering and information dissemintation.

Not so. Several resistance movements in occupied western european countries, France, Belguim et. al. worked directly with American (OSS) and British (called MI-6 now and possibly in WWII as well) clandestine forces to actively sabotage German operations and communications. They also carreid out assassinations.

It is estimated that, in coordination with allied agents, these resistance movements cost the Germans several divisions of men during the Germans defense of the D-Day beaches by delaying them with sabatoge tactics. Also, prior to the Allied invasion of Sicily, Italian resistance fighters performed simialar operation against the Germans.

Ogre

[oldsoldier]

True, but mostly through disruption of railroads and sending info. There were assasinations and killings, but most of it was true clandestine work. They were small units, that were supported by US and Britain (they wrent MI6 at the time, and I'll be damned if I can remember their designation). I didnt mean that they didnt play a big role in the liberation and/or disruption of entire units. What i meant was that, for the most part, they were "passive" units, rather than "active" ones. The main, exception to this, as you pointed out, was mainly in Northern France, where the French actually conducted wet ops. There and Belgium was where the main organizations existed; to a smaller degree, also, again like you pointed out, in Italy and elsewhere. More people "claimed" they were part of the resistance after France was liberated than actually were. It was kinda "in vogue" to be seen as a resistance fighter...alot made false claims.


A good book, from the German soldiers view, is "The Forgotten Soldier". It chronicles one boy's drafting into the wermacht, all the way to the end of the war and his trip home. There is another one written from a Russian's view...but I cant find it. When I do, I'll post that too. Both of them give a very different view of what most people perceive the "average" German or Russian soldier went through.
One other note; although "Enemy at the Gates" was a good movie, the end sucked. Vasiliy's g/f was lead to beleive he had died; he stepped on a mine and lost a foot, and was in hospital for something like 6 months. She didnt know he was alive till years later. There was a book called the Dual of Stalingrad, or maybe Battle of stalingrad...but it was about him. A very good read.

[ogre55]

Doobie:

You don't need a scenerio game to bring out these kinds of morons. A few years ago a bunch of knuckleheads came to walk-on game in NJ dressed in full SS regalia. Needless to say they were not the most loved people on that field. I think everyone on the opposing team spent the day hunting these dimwits. Hell, I think their own teammates were less than excited to help.

Ogre

[darklord]

Real thorough posts, guys, this thread was an interesting read. Now to add my $0.02, I have to say, since it's a scenario game taking place during WW2, it's appropriate to wear German medals and whatnot of the time... although I think donning a swatstika is a little too much. But I will say this much... if I see anyone on a field with a swatstika outside of a WW2 scenario game.... I will probably have to do something rather harsh, not in favor of them.

[ogre55]

As a caveat to the above post, while it did happen, it only happened once to me, and this is the only time I have ever heard of this happening to anyone. I guess these guys learned their lesson.

Ogre