my new hinge frame

**davidb** · 02-10-2003, 02:33 PM

I'm going to do something taboo here, and use a gun analogy.

The M16 rifle fires from a closed bolt. The bullet is propelled by gases released in the combustion of the... well, propellant. Now, anyone who has ever seen a muzzle flash can tell you that those gases still have some force to them as they exit the barrel - FAR more than the gas propelling a paintball would have.
The muzzle velocity of the M16 is 1000 meters per second. The MAX velocity of the M16 is - that's right, you guessed it - 1000 meters per second!! As it leaves the barrel, it immediately begins to decelerate.

Now, if this was not the case, why would anyone give a damn what the muzzle velocity was? What you really want to know is what the max velocity is, right? Muzzle velocity is used because it IS the max velocity.

Now, you might point out, as many have, that closed bolt guns, as a general rule, have better range than open bolt ones. The sad part is, that you, like many, probably never stopped to think about WHY! It's actually very simple. They have a higher muzzle velocity! That's right - no theories, no "it's hard to explain", just plain old "the bullet's goin' faster!"

Think about this: If CockerMongol's neato little idea'r had any semblance of truth to it, Cockers would either be banned, or forced to chrony in some special manner to record their actual maximum velocity. You might respond that nobody ever realized it was happening before. You don't think that Cockers would also be known for hurting like crazy? Or being unsafe? I can promise you that CockerMongol is not the first to think of this, although he may well be the first (immediately succeeded by folk like you) to not discount the idea for the idiocy that it is.

Do yourself a favor, and just forget that you ever read it. Embrace reality while you still can.

**Jack & Coke** · 02-10-2003, 02:54 PM

OMG! I think Strongboy may be on to something here...

After searching the whole internet, I have found a chart which best summarizes the data that cockers shoot further than mags! It is great evidence to show off to those know-nothing automagers.

If you believe cockers have more distance than other guns, this chart is for you! Click here to see the data and chart.

I'm going to sell my mag and get a cocker now!

**Timmee** · 02-10-2003, 03:16 PM

Well, all this accuracy/acceleration nonsense is negated by my self propelled, laser guided paintballs with radar guided redundancy. The only downside is that it makes the paintballs weight 40 lbs, but to never miss is worth carrying only 4-5 paintballs onto the field.

Now that the sarcasm is over with, ....

Paintballs WILL NOT positively accelerate once they pass the porting of a barrel, although they will negatively accelerate (or decelerate). In the absence of porting, a paintball will stop accelerating once it reaches the end of the barrel. Strongboy2005, here's a challenge. Tell this theory to the physics teacher at your school, and see what he/she says. The laws of physics don't lie, and aren't biased in any way towards 'Cockers or 'Mags (or any other marker for that matter).

**booyah** · 02-10-2003, 03:24 PM

great quote i heard once...

"once the ball leaves the barrel, it doesnt care what gun it was shot from... it will go on the course set from the instant it left the barrel."

and yes, this was from a cocker centric shop. just to prove that not all cocker shops are full of morons like strongboy....

**Dayspring** · 02-10-2003, 03:42 PM

I sense the flames rising up yet AGAIN.

Shouldn't you be well done by now Strongboy?

**JT2002** · 02-10-2003, 03:52 PM

nah i think hes going for X Mag ***Cough Cough*** i mean Xtra crispy

**nospmas311** · 02-10-2003, 04:11 PM

Flame

Ah yes... I can feel the radiance from here. I'll let the rest of my household freeze to death while I warm myself up to this flaming screen...

**JT2002** · 02-10-2003, 04:55 PM

lol. im just playing

**la690** · 02-10-2003, 05:13 PM

I think that Isaac Newton owned you, Strongboy.
(with some help from AO)

**strongboy2005** · 02-10-2003, 08:50 PM

EVERY POST between this and the last post I did is either flaming me, or the topic. What is the point of this? I already said I'd test it. My friend has a mag with a 14" boomstick, and I have a friend with a cocker 14" boomstick I can slap on my cocker. A table and two vices are easy. We (my team) have two chronos already. I will chrono them +- 3 bps within each other. I will make sure both are running consistantly +- 3bps of each other. There will be a wall 50 feet away from the tips of the barrels of the guns. Both will be shooting a hopper of marbs. I will use a long rod that will be equally pulled on both guns to ensure each gun is firing the same bps (we wouldn't want the cocker to smoke the mag, and look bad on tape). This is the best I can do to prove cockers shoot farther. And when the cocker out-distances the mag you will all say I cheated. But it won't matter, because then I will know the truth, and I can show that tape to any/everyone I know who is tied between the two markers. The cocker will out-distance the mag. You can jot that down as my official hypothesis.

**FooTemps** · 02-10-2003, 09:02 PM

Originally posted by strongboy2005
EVERY POST between this and the last post I did is either flaming me, or the topic. What is the point of this? I already said I'd test it. My friend has a mag with a 14" boomstick, and I have a friend with a cocker 14" boomstick I can slap on my cocker. A table and two vices are easy. We (my team) have two chronos already. I will chrono them +- 3 bps within each other. I will make sure both are running consistantly +- 3bps of each other. There will be a wall 50 feet away from the tips of the barrels of the guns. Both will be shooting a hopper of marbs. I will use a long rod that will be equally pulled on both guns to ensure each gun is firing the same bps (we wouldn't want the cocker to smoke the mag, and look bad on tape). This is the best I can do to prove cockers shoot farther. And when the cocker out-distances the mag you will all say I cheated. But it won't matter, because then I will know the truth, and I can show that tape to any/everyone I know who is tied between the two markers. The cocker will out-distance the mag. You can jot that down as my official hypothesis.

Firing it slowly should get a better result since the gun gets a chance to fully recharge and settle. Also, make the distance from the wall a bit longer. Just a length far enough to get the balls to land noticably lower than their initial starting point yet still be able to break on the wall. Not to mention, the cocker really don't shoot faster than a mag. The mag's max rof is far beyond a cocker's maximum physical capability. BUT the problem with mags is that they are hard to shoot so you can't achieve high rof easily unless you have retro/x/rt/emag valves.

I'm sorry if I flamed you but I'm just trying to prove that it is impossible for a paintball to accellerate outside of the barrel. Physics can't really be fooled like that.

**spantol** · 02-10-2003, 09:12 PM

You know, you made the same claim in the last thread you started about this topic, and then promptly disappeared. Not that I'm calling you a troll outright, mind you, it just strikes me as curious.

Originally posted by strongboy2005
EVERY POST between this and the last post I did is either flaming me, or the topic. What is the point of this? I already said I'd test it. My friend has a mag with a 14" boomstick, and I have a friend with a cocker 14" boomstick I can slap on my cocker. A table and two vices are easy. We (my team) have two chronos already. I will chrono them +- 3 bps within each other. I will make sure both are running consistantly +- 3bps of each other. There will be a wall 50 feet away from the tips of the barrels of the guns. Both will be shooting a hopper of marbs. I will use a long rod that will be equally pulled on both guns to ensure each gun is firing the same bps (we wouldn't want the cocker to smoke the mag, and look bad on tape). This is the best I can do to prove cockers shoot farther. And when the cocker out-distances the mag you will all say I cheated. But it won't matter, because then I will know the truth, and I can show that tape to any/everyone I know who is tied between the two markers. The cocker will out-distance the mag. You can jot that down as my official hypothesis.

**EsPo** · 02-10-2003, 09:18 PM

Just ignore this thread.. another one swallowed by the sea of propaganda...

**temps** · 02-10-2003, 09:47 PM

strongboy2005, your basing your information from a website thats information, is posted as being THEORY. (dismissing the fact that the web site has many errors in it, and the theory is wrong/proven wrong else where... grade 11 physics for example)

, the guys theory like is wrong, a paintball once left the barrel cannot continue to exelerate. But instead of explaining again why your wrong like everyone else has. I'm going to through my.own theory out for discussion

We have all shot (well most people here anyway) mags, Some of us have shot cockers, to say there is a small bias on these forms is an understatment

My friends cocker, when fired looks like an elegant dance, its quite the ball has a perfect arc, and it hits the target with ease. Now my theory behind why cockers shoot better, is one, consistancy... Now comparing cockers to tippmanns and spyders, consistancy is a big difference and it is odviouse, ANYWAY I also beleive when comparing mags to cockers you can ignore consistancy as the difference can almost be dissmissed.

Well Here is my Theory of why guns shoot differenty (not just mags vs cockers, this theory effects all guns)

Theory: Air Turbulance behind the paintball.

(I am not sure, maby someone can pm the truth about this)

But, I think that the way to air is released to fire the paintball, depending on how the holes are set up may cause the air to act differently from gun to gun, therefore affecting the forces that are pushing on the ball.

But we all know mags kick ***, no mater what anybody says

**davidb** · 02-10-2003, 09:54 PM

No, actually, not EVERY POST was a flame. But since I've already been accused of it...
Your hypotheses (and I use the term very, very loosely) are WRONG, and labeling them as such is not flaming, but merely a statement of fact. The idea that you even want to test them is causing all sane people reading this thread to either laugh out loud or shake their heads in pity. You are right about one thing: if you say the cocker shot farther than the mag, you are either lying, you cheated, or you did something stupid that worked in your favor.

If you do, as you claim, have all the equipment to perform your ignoble experiment, then it stands to reason that you have at least one chronograph at your disposal. Why, then, do you not simply take your beloved Autococker (I own one as well in case you're wondering) and shoot it over the chrony a few times, back up, and repeat? It would save you a lot of trouble and a lot of embarassment.

On the other hand, the longer you carry on with this, the longer the rest of us get to be entertained by it. So, by all means, allow your illusion to endure to its final stupidity. And please, post pics.

my new hinge frame

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