DeadlyWind's new Chord body!

[manike]

Originally posted by luke
Please pardon my ignorance, but exactly what function does the "4th axis" perform?

It allows you to turn the piece around a '4th axis' as you still do the conventional 3 axis (X,Y,Z) movements with the milling bit.

So in effect for this body the part is rotated around the long axis (barrel direction) as the milling bit moves up and down to cut the shape into it.

I think Nicad is avoiding using the term 'ripper milling' as that is done by someone else entirely.

[luke]

Thanks manike,
That was my guess (Spinning motion), but now I'm curious about a 5 axis mill. What's the 5th function? (I'm pretty sure I've seen you write about such a machine)

So in regard to "ripper milling" it's a function, not a type of mill? I thought he was talking about a brand name.

I am curious what mill he is using.(?)

[GT]

I used the term "riper mill" as a style and ment nothing else.

jb

[manike]

Ripper milling is a 'brand' of milling style. Owned by Jim Eaton I believe. It's a style.

'Axis' when it comes to machine can mean many things and different machine's with 4 or 5 axis can be of a completely different style. Bear in mind every darn manufacture calls their axis differently I'll try to explain one particular set up with a horizontal arm machine.

An axis, usually refers to a direction of movement, which can be linear or rotational.

If you hold your wrist out square to your body and point your finger out. Now imagine you can move your hand up and down (Z) in and out (Y) and then left to right (X)

And you can also pivot (or wiggle your finger) by bending it at the nuckle (A axis).

Now you can also twist your wrist around keeping the finger pointing in the same direction (often called B axis depending on manufacturer).

This gives you 5 axis. A four axis machine may have either a B or A type axis, or something else completely. They can get an axis by moving the tool, or the part, or the machine bed. Some 5 axis machines keep the tool locked solidaly and then swing the bed from side to side and rotate it to get the extra axis.

Now do a combination of A and B axis movements with your hand and you will see you can point the tool in pretty much any direction. Move it around in the X,Y and Z planes and you will see that you can get anywhere pretty much (depending on tool length).

If you move the axis while cutting this is called continuous machining. Nicad is using his 4th axis continuously, but I suspect just two of the basic axis directions to cut his body (up and down and then stepping over along the body)(it all gets hella complicated trying to explain all the possible combinations).

You can move all axis continuously while cutting and this allows you to make some weird and wonderful things. For instance cutting a ball with an end mill and leaving a perfectly smooth surface finish. Imagine using your wrist and finger pivot to move around a ball, always pointing your finger into the centre of the ball.

Ultimately there are so many combinations of axis that you can even get upto 7 axis machine quite commonly. But almost all can be done with a 5 axis in one set up. Most can also be done with a 3 axis machine but you may need multiple set ups and to 'blend' paths together.

Phew. I hope that helps and I haven't just clouded things further :)

[Mook564]

Drool, Drool, Drool,............... OK I am Done now.
That is one HOT looking CNC job for a slug body.Great job.

[luke]

manike,
Thank you! That was very well written, and very informative. (I even understood it! )

I've been gleaning as much information as possible on the subject for sometime, so this is very helpful and appreciated.

[nicad]

hey Simon, how ya doin? glad ya like the work so far.
are ya going to be sending me a bill for your time in posting here? hehh :)

yes manike is correct- since these bodies are mostly a tube, I am rolling the piece parallel to the X-axis with the A-axis rotary table to work "around" the body.
He is also correct in the statements about the "ripper" name.

in a coupla days I will be polishing up this one to a nice shiny finish and letting everyone see what the "finished" deal will look like.

[shartley]

Very nice... not my style, but very well done. Great job. :)

[Will Wood]

Nice work. Good to see people starting to get stuff going with these sluggos.

[manike]

Originally posted by nicad
hey Simon, how ya doin? glad ya like the work so far.
are ya going to be sending me a bill for your time in posting here? hehh :)

If I thought you could afford it...

I'm a definite fan of a lot of your work. Some very innovative and cool stuff.

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

OVERHEAD

So what's the overhead (expenses) for doing these bodies? Like we all know AGD's selling them for $100 retail but if you're buying wholesale do they cut you a deal and sell them for less?
How much does it cost to anno one single body? A group of 5 bodies? 10? 50? 100? Is annoing done in a batch process so making more than a certain number brings the price way down?
Besides the time it takes to design the model for it to carve, what is involved in producing the bodies? I take it the machine is automatic and making 100 is way more efficient than making only 5 and wouldn't raise material and labor costs much because it would still be 100/body and whatever time it takes to manage the process.
I'm mostly asking all this to find out the best route for me to take in getting a body, this body is amazing but since it is being produced custom, the price is too steep for me. I was hoping AGD is going to do a mass-batch and really keep the costs down and pass the savings to the customer. I also want to anno my barrel and trying to figure out if it's worth the cost or if I should just look for a company that sells annoed barrels they do in batches.

[SHAZAM-AGD]

over head can not always be factored down to one single part...it cost money just to turn the lights on in a machine shop before you do any work.

annoing is done in batches...the more parts you have on a tray that gets dipped into a anno bath the cheaper it is per part.

to machine 100 as opposed to 5 increases your labor equally cause you need some one to take the other 95 parts of the mill and keep it running to spec so you do not cut a bunch of parts out that will not fit right.

I work for AGD and yes I am going to be making some mass produced custom bodies but it will not be released anytime soon and the cost will still be high due to the overhead.

you can anno the barrel yourself if you wish not real hard but requires some knowlege of the process. custom products has the best price on barrels that I have found and they make very tight specs.

good luck...

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

body

Hey thanks for the response Shazam, I'm dying to get something nice on my gun (especially since it's my only one and sitting in my room without a body cause I sold it expecting the ULE's to be out by now).

I'm not sure what you're leaning at in regards to expensive, I'm looking for a good-looking body set up with the ball detents at least, and hopefully a gated lo-rise, for $175. With the mass-production this seems possible but I understand if it really isn't. Like I said, I am clueless in regards to the expenses related to this. But if people would have to spend $1300 (prices of Emag, custom body, and such) or go on the waiting list for an XMag to get a gun with performance and looks comparable to an IR3, the new LaSoya Timmy (nasty piece of gear), or Orracle EClass they'll probably go with those because they're ready to go.

How soon is soon? Spring's coming up and everybody's launching their new gear (Shockers making huge news right now). I'd love to be sporting a nasty Mag before the big tourneys in this area start but again, can't see spending $225 for a body being produced in low volumes when I could sell the Mag and use that money to get an IR3, 2003 Shocker, Timmy, or other gun that looks nasty, performs just as well, and would cost less to get the good looks of these C+C sluggos because they mass-produce the bodies. People'll be buying their new gear soon and if AGD waits too long they might miss a great opportunity for people to be sporting the new-bodied Mags right from opening day!

Not bashing AGD or anything, just dying to get my AGD baby cranking this spring and looking good without going broke and not being able to afford paint at the same time.

[SHAZAM-AGD]

I feel your pain and completely agree with you but AGd is doing a whole transformaiton from completley stainles steel to almost entirely aluminum.

everybody else has been making aluminum guns for a good while and have a head start on us but we as the turtle will win the race.

you can always find what you want if you are willing to put the time in to search for it...best of luck.

my bodies are going to be different than anything anyone else is doing in paintball right now but that is all I can say at the moment.

[Evil Bob]

Manike, give them the link to "Carmen" for a visual example of what you are talking about.

-Evil Bob