Next batch of Xmags

[Psycho Chicken]

I haven't heard anything for a while now, and was wondering what was up with them. Where in the process are they, was there another setback, etc.

I'm not trying to get outof hand I was just wondering.

Thanks in adcance for any info

[wyn1370]

4-6 months

[WarBUCKs]

hmmmmmm.... I hope it isn't 4-6 months. If it takes that long, I might get something else... sigh

[Psycho Chicken]

do you know the reason why wyn

[Kevmaster]

Really? I heard Feb. 30th, 2015....oh well...at least Wyn is being optimistic

[Smokee_2_7]

I too would like an update on the current batch. . . even though im not in it. I've been told that I should be included in the next batch- - - but this current one has been going on for quite some time now.

I seriously hope that the 4-6 months is a joke. . .

I also seriously hope AGD can get these things out in full production, soon. The market is pretty ripe for them. Where I used to get confused looks from newbie kids in the shop when I told them I shot an automag ('an AUTOMATIDC@!!!!??). Now, when i mention that im getting an x-mag, their jaws drop open in honest awe. More people out there know about Airgun designs and their products. Many more than 3-4 years ago. Of course, Players who have been in the sport longer have ALWAYS known AGD - - but this new generation has come in knowing only that " angels are the bestest- - oohhh Intimminindatoes" (note: misspelled intentionally for purposes of the newbies i was quoting)

It's getting to the point where when you say x-mag, these kids just say "woah. . . awesome"

I've been on wait since october, and during that time, have convinced about 5 other people to get an x-mag- -I've got them on the list also. Unfortunately, many of them are waiting to see my gun (im the first on the list in our area) before the really commit to purchasing it. If my x-mag is another 6 months in comming, most of these sales will be lost to intimidators or impulses. A couple already have been.


I know that Tom dosen't have to fill us in, but i sure appreciate it when he does. It makes the time go by faster- - and I have somthing else to tell people when they ask when my x-mag is comming in other than 'ummm I have no idea. ." (by the way, im asked this by customers EVERY week- - usually at least 3-4 times.)


Carl

[Jack & Coke]

You'll be lucky if you get it 4-6 months...

A lot has to do with AGD's commitment to giving you a QUALITY product. Since AGD assembles, tests, and trouble shoots each XMAG by hand, it takes a while to crank these babies out.

If the components AGD receives are of exacting tolerances and 100% top notch quality, then i'm sure the assembly/testing/troubleshooting time would be minimal.

BUT!

What if...

What if the components they received are NOT up to AGD standards (i.e. tolerances, anodizing, etc.)?

I'm not saying this is the case, but what if...?

[nuclear zombie]

you've been on wait since October, let's see i've been on wait 3 months after you , so I should get mine in about another 4-5 months .

I can't wait to see some pictures of the next batch of x-mags !

[InfinatyBPS]

What was with all the marketing and showing off if they weren't going to be able to supply the demand?

[Smokee_2_7]

Jack & Coke,

I agree with what you said in reference to AGD's commitment to quality. That's why I have owned and shot their markers since my first year in paintball. I also understand how manufacturing works-- but i definitly am not claiming to know everything.

I can understand a bit of a delay in the first or second batch, But the combined amount of delays has kept this marker from the majority general public for OVER a year and a half.

I started thinking about the timeline involved with the evolution of the x-mag. . feel free to contribute and/or correct where needed. After writing this list, it really made my final question stand out in my head.


1. airgun europe comes up with the extreme emag somthing like 2 years ago.

2. Airgun US announces that this will be available in the us- - eventually.

3. Shocktech gets ahold of some extreme bodies, and has the SFL emag in production. Eventually production sells out. Honestly, the product was not ready- - - this was back in the day before level 10 and the ACE. Sales were not as good (i.e. fast) as they should have been for shocktech for these reasons. Production is stopped before even all the bodies they bought from AGD are used.

3.A. during this time, research is conducted, tested and completed, resulting in the level 10 upgrade. Anti-chop eyes soon follow available for SFL's and extremes. Definitly an improvement to the markers design and function. Makes it a worthwhile purchase and serious contender for the high-end trophy. *of course, in my opinion, it HAS that trophy*

3.B. the C&C version is designed and announced over a year ago. A limited number are available for sale around last august-september. shortly therafter, the name is changed to x-mag, and full production is scheduled/announced. immediately. This falls around september/october of last year. Pre-orders are continually being taken.

4. Understandbly, some bugs would be encountered. Airgun tackles the problems full force, and the final adjustments to specs. of the marker are made. Production runs are announced to be in the number of 75 per month. we wait for the first batch.

--- everything up to this point seems perfectly normal to me. All of the above are legitimate reasons why the x-mag had made it to the masses by this point-- - below, is where i start to get lost.-----

5. Late december, the first batch is produced - - approximately how many guns? The first number i heard was 70 ish. Not sure of a true count. Ok, first run, no big deal if the 'deadline' wasn't met- - it will get better.

6. Apparently, whatever was done to get the first batch produced didnt work the second time around, because the second (january batch) didnt actually make it out until march sometime. --- mmmm. . ok. I'll give it to you. just a few final bugs with the production system. Should have it all fixed by now, and AT LEAST turn out 40 guns a month. Still below the original quota, but production is production. ----

7. Once again, it looks as if whatever worked for batches 1 and 2 (not to mention the other guns before the 'production' runs) didn't work for batch number 3 - - originally slated for febuary. To my knowledge, pretty much everyone in these first batches have been satisfied with their purchases- - with the odd random exception (which can most likely be contributed to improper setup of level 10, or other user-error).

The only thing different about batch number 3 and those to follow after is supposedly battery pack milling. (at least from what i've gathered).

What I'm wondering is what has happened with these guns that has delayed their manufacturing to MAY? I understand how some could be mis-machined. I understand how some could be rejected from ano, and have to be re-done. I don't understand how a small percentage of 'mistakes' on a select few of the total number of bodies can result in an entire run of markers being held up- - - It would make sense to me if one would set aside the mistakes, finish the ones that are fine, get those processed (i.e. finished and sold) then work on 'fixing' or replacing whatever went wrong. This way you are still producing product, still selling product, and still generating more interest and more money.

Airgun has produced over 100 of these markers by now. I would think that the manufacturing process would be under control by this time. Catastrophic circumstances would be an understandable reason (i.e. the machine shop making the bodies had a massive equipment failure, ect.), but we have heard nothing about this.

If it is a problem with product design that needs to be changed, I would think that we would have heard somthing about this from the current owners of x-mags.

If it is a problem with repetitive mistakes in manufacturing (i.e. oops. . sorry tom, we cut all these x-mag bodies half an inch too short, but we're still charging you for the labor) I would think that it's time to locate a new manufacturer.


So. . . . what is the problem?


Carl

[Tron]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
You'll be lucky if you get it 4-6 months...

A lot has to do with AGD's commitment to giving you a QUALITY product. Since AGD assembles, tests, and trouble shoots each XMAG by hand, it takes a while to crank these babies out.

If the components AGD receives are of exacting tolerances and 100% top notch quality, then i'm sure the assembly/testing/troubleshooting time would be minimal.

I don't know about that. Remember the problem with the ULE ball detent and the bolts? How could you miss something like that? My friend had to go out and get a new ball detent because his bolt took a chuck out of the bearing. Been a few other things that they have had problems along the way to which could of been easily fixed with quality control. I bought a dragon timmy two weeks ago because I really didn't feel like waiting 6-7 months for a gun. As amazing as it is I think it will lose all steam by the time they can keep up with orders.

-Tron

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by Tron

...As amazing as it [XMAG] is I think it will lose all steam by the time they can keep up with orders...

-Tron

Indeed... a sad reality which we hope will not occur.

*crosses fingers*

[dre1919]

I agree with Carl's post from above whole heartedly. My thing is this: When I first heard about the X-Mag, I wanted one naturally because I've been shooting AGD products for the past six years and I wanted to "keep it in the family". I wanted an X-Mag even more once I learned it was lighter than a Fly Angel, and I'm at a point where I want to upgrade my gun situation to the highest end marker I can get. Ok...so I researched the X here on AO and learned about it and it sounded better than anything else out there. However, then I learned there was at least a six month wait (and in most cases it's longer) so I put my name on the list and joined ranks with the AO army waiting until I stopped and thought about it. I'm waiting six months or longer to give someone $1400+ for a supposed "work of art" marker? These things are hand made, built, tested, whatever? I appreciate the attention to detail, but that's just not that necissary. I'm going to play with it, not hang it on the wall. WDP doesn't have a problem putting lots of markers out from a production stand point. People will say WDP is a bigger company than AGD, but AGD is older in the paintball world so whose fault it that?

If it's necissary to have that attention to detail as a selling point, hire more help. I have the same problem where I work because my place of business tries to offer a product only putting half the work into it on the production side. If you're going to be in business and challenge the industry standard, put money and resources into it and let's roll. The consensus in the real world is the Angel is top dog and that's that. Do I think the X could take it on? Sure do...but not if it never comes out. I'm looking at a superior product that can't come out because 70 or 40 or whatever is what's made per month and that's it? That's crazy...and so is hyping it up so early before a full scale rollout can begin.

I understand AGD enthusiasts and collectors and the so-called "serious" player will wait for such a heaven sent marker but that's a flawed strategy (no offense Tom). I'm a very "serious" player, but I need a high end marker now, not in a year. Collector's and enthusiasts aren't the main market...the common player is. And I know, people say the X isn't for the common player just like the Angel isn't either, but I find it funny how many 13 and 14 year old kids I play even rec games against are walkin' around with Angels...

I think AGD is a fantastic company with great quality markers, and I think the X can completely revitalize their image, reputation and sales but not if it never sees the light of day. A little buzz and anticipation is good, but be careful how long you make people wait. At some point they'll realize the wait just isn't worth it...I know I have. I'm picking up a Dark ir3 as soon as possible because October isn't when I want a new marker, right now is. I wish AGD good luck with this strategy, but it concerns me for their future.

On a side complaint, what's with having to have a huge loop of steel braid or macro line from the power tube assembly all the way down to the drop forward? Can we not find a way to internalize this like the Angel or Timmy does? That's something that immediately turned me off about the design. Just my .02.

[Psycho Chicken]

Maybe tom (or someone else), could answer our questions. Again, I'm not trying to be a pain in the butt. I just haven't heard anything for awhile now and was wondering.

[nuclear zombie]

If we must wait one month per batch of 40 -70 x-mags to be shipped from AGDE , then why don't we build them in the US ?

First of all it's a CNC process , you can send the *.stl files , or the cad/cam files required in a matter of seconds securely through the internet. There are a considerable amount of CNC capable machine shops in the US , that can produce the bodies with these CAD/CAM file to TK's tolerances . So the real question on the wait on the x-mags is : Why aren't they being built in the US? Does AGDE maintain a monopoly over the x-mag body design ?

It just doesn't make any sense !