I demand AGD Work on this right now or I'm buying a Cocker!!!! ;)

[Patron God of Pirates]

OK, Just Kidding, calm down :P

AGD has been on a relentless product improvement spree. To me overwhelming gratitude I might add. I have something for the list.

El-Fox!? Who is now on these forums, shoots an A-5 with the flatline barrel. This thing is pure sweetness. With the right paint and velocity setting the shots are on a rope. Last weekend we split a case of Evil paint (OK, I was shooting my E-Mag so it wasn't exactly an even split). The shots were as dead on as you can expect from any marker.

I also have a Z-Gripped Galactic Z-Body Mag. Again, with the right settings and paint, it works fantastic.

I'm wondering why the premise of back spin generating devices has been so undersold in paintball. Only Tippmann and some odd ball company (Galactic Systemz) have created working designs.

Given how well all those closed bolt markers have sold on their bogus range claims, you'd think it would do all right. Even without the range bonus, the flat shots are plain as day to see.

I'm sure if any company were able to create a consistent backspin device, it would be AGD. In the interim, why not run some slugs to accept the little device that makes the Z-Body work? They might complain, but nobody is buying those things anyway. At least this way they can make some money selling the spin rubbers and adjustable covers at $33 a pop.

What do people think? An AGD Z-Slug?

Then you can slap on a Y-Grip and and X-Valve and have an X-Y-Z Mag. :)

[joker4hire]

Problem with "backspin" systems, is that you can only fire the marker one way... If you tilt the marker anyother way the paintballs will curve.

[Patron God of Pirates]

Originally posted by joker4hire
Problem with "backspin" systems, is that you can only fire the marker one way... If you tilt the marker anyother way the paintballs will curve.

Sounds like a selling point to me.

[neuromonic]

Problem with "backspin" systems, is that you can only fire the marker one way... If you tilt the marker anyother way the paintballs will curve.

Not if someone got innovative with some bearings and a little weight.

[Vendetta]

I've seen flatlines on cockers. Is there a way to make the sluggo accept these barrels?

[xen_100]

whatever, that would never work, are you gong to have a pendgalum on your barrel to keep it straight up and down? people have enough problems getting those flatline to mount correctly.

another couple problems with backspin barrels are efficiency. you have to have a BIG barrel with smaller paint to get it to work right. that makes it loud and gas hoggy. the other one is being on target at close range. when you fire a flatline the ball goes up and then starts to fall. so at close range you have to aim lower than you would with a normal barrel. I am sure this is something you can get used to, but it is an annoyance.

there is also a practical issue. anything over 100 feet and you can hear and see a ball coming and move. I have never seen someone able to really use the extra range you get with a flatline. by the time the ball gets there, the target moved 3 times.

[GT]

Re: I demand AGD Work on this right now or I'm buying a Cocker!!!!

Originally posted by Patron God of Pirates
Then you can slap on a Y-Grip and and X-Valve and have an X-Y-Z Mag. :)

haha that sounds nice,
Has your buddy ever shot his in a cross wind? try that and watch the ball float away.

jb

[Patron God of Pirates]

Pirate God Barrel V1.0

Well both systems take advantage of the fact that expanding gasses follow the path of least resistance. Both cause th ball to ride the top of the barrel as air escapes underneath causing the backspin.

Based on that premise I came up with this design which anyone should feel free to steal, produce, test, and give me a free one.

The idea is for air channels cut into the barrels ID, beneath the ball. This should promote airflow by creating an unobstructed path for the air below the ball.

The top and bottom of the barrel should be honed differently. So if you felt the inside the bottom would feel like a boom stick and the top would feel like a stock 98 barrel.

The fist problem I foresee is that barrels tend to not screw into every gun the same, so that up isn't always up. To accommodate for the the barrel would have to rotate right after the treaded section. You could use the bearer concept presented earlier with a weighted section at the bottom of the barrel, or just a 128 point click lock and a jewel on the top to let you know the right side was up.

Seems to me like this would work. It may not improve air efficiency over existing designs, but it may reduce the dramatic bore difference requirement. As long as the barrel were built to a larger bore size it would work with most paint.

I'm sure there is some fundamental flaw in my design that will be pointed out.

[GT]

Re: Pirate God Barrel V1.0

Originally posted by Patron God of Pirates

The fist problem I foresee is that barrels tend to not screw into every gun the same, so that up isn't always up.

easy fix,
just make it an insert barrel system. Allow the inserts to be adjusted, via a notch system. Personally I dont think you will be able to get the rpm high enough on just a barrel coating alone.

jb

[Patron God of Pirates]

Re: Re: Pirate God Barrel V1.0

Originally posted by gtrsi


easy fix,
just make it an insert barrel system. Allow the inserts to be adjusted, via a notch system. Personally I dont think you will be able to get the rpm high enough on just a barrel coating alone.

jb

That is what the airflow channels are for. The coating is just to encourage backspin behavior.

[*ArKfEaR*]

lol.. i use to have a z body mag.

It was a
Chrome Z body mag.. with black Z bigshot...
black elcipse body rail
z-valve for regular AIR valve
chrome dye double trigger frame with black dye double trigger (also did the G3PB mod where you drill a hole in the corner and attatch a spring to it.. link:http://www.g3pb.com/images_projects/f_m_frame1.jpg)
black dye stickies
chrome kapp ASA
black kapp gass thru
ANS venturi foamie bolt
black kapp dz 2
chrome kapp on/off
PE 68/4500

i loved that setup... hrrm i miss it.. it worked real well too. Definitley one of my favorite mags...great looking too



then i shot a cocker

[El Fox!?]

The ball will float away...it moves to slow...all these myths and whatnot. Always amusing. So lets see...let me address some of these things.

BS1:

While this is true due to the fact that the perfect velocity is between 265 and 275fps, it's more of an optical illusion. At this speed, the spin and the speed of the paintball flys in the straighest flight path. The shots definately look slower, because they fly in a more predictable flight path that the eye can follow easier, even though the ball is only going 5 to 15fps slower.

In fact, a paintball fired from a flatline barrel retains it's initial speed longer than a paintball fired from a normal barrel because of the Magnus Effect, so at ranges of 40 to 60 feet, the Flatline actually is traveling faster than a shot from a normal paintball.

Tippmann did tests slowing an actuall 10 to 15% speed INCREASE between evenly spaced chronographs on a target range. Show me another barrel that can do that...

BS2:
Unless the guy with the flatline is standing about 250 feet away and the guy catching or dodging the paintball is Barry Sanders.

At extreme range, ALL paintballs move slowly enough to dodge easily, no matter the barrel they are fired from. But in typical paintball ranges (50 to 150 feet) these claims are a load of crap.

BS3:
Can't handle a high rate of fire? You guys havent seen me fan my trigger yet, have you? Once installed properly, the flatline can handle E-Grips, RTs, and E-bolts.

Where most people get this idea is when they chop paint in the bolt because they are outshooting thier hoppers or becuase they failed to properly install the flatline, resulting in a small gap inside the adapter which can chop paint.

BS4:
Not acurate, huh? Again, this is BS. The flatline, when properly installed, shooting good quality small bore paintballs, and shot with the proper technique is MORE accurate than the stock barrel.

The thing is that people will run out and get a flatline, throw it on without readying the directions, dump some brass eagle paintballs into the hopper, crank the velocity as high as it can go, and then shoot the marker with it tilted at an angle to the right or left.

The marker MUST be fired with the marker straight up and down, tilting the marker left or right will result in curving shot that can go around objects in the field, which can come in handy, but make it seem to be inaccurate to the untrained user. Or great for hitting people behind bunkers!?

If you shoot crappy paint, expect crappy results. Paintballs with pronounced seams, paintballs with oily shells, paintballs with dimples or large bore paintballs will result in bad to horid results.

Also, keep the barrel cleaned religiously. Between games you should sgueegie the barrel out even if you didn't break any paintballs. A dry and clean flatline is necessary in order for the barrel to maximize the back spin effect.

Another thing to keep in mind is that due to the spin the flatline puts on the ball, everything you've already learned about shooting paintballs is wrong. The flight path is different and you have to become adjusted to this.

Also, wind can have a different effect on your shots due to the spin that the flatline puts on the ball. It's definately not an all weather barrel. But then again, wind affects all paintBALLS or other such things that are not areodynamic.

To many myths are bad juju. Think about all those people who ran out into the street trying to avoid a black cat only to be obliterated by a zamboni machine. Well...I made that up..but you know what I mean--right?

[Patron God of Pirates]

Pages 1 through 5 of the flatline usage manual are brought to use today by my good friend, El-Fox!?.

Thanks Rod, but we know all that stuff. The complaints that have been made here are that the barrel is loud (true) and that it reduces gas efficiency (true).

As far as the dodging thing goes, I've dodged paint at 30 ft, so that's not entirely true. And the "typical paintball ranges" really depend on what you play. As far as I'm concerned "typical paintball ranges" are 10 to 30 ft.

That being said. What you wrote is true, and that's why I started this thread.

I'd like to see the data on the 15% velocity increase though. That doesn't make sense to me.

PS- I have a cousin who was obliterated by a Zamboni in exactly that fashion you prick!

[Natray]

Originally posted by El Fox!?

BS3:
Can't handle a high rate of fire? You guys havent seen me fan my trigger yet, have you?

I have and I can tell you. El Fox has a sick trigger finger.

Originally posted by El Fox!?

Think about all those people who ran out into the street trying to avoid a black cat only to be obliterated by a zamboni machine.

Those poor poor people....


Anyways, good points Fox. Patron do you have your Z-mag ready? Can't wait to see it in action.

[El Fox!?]

Ill try to find that.