agd streamlining.....

[Frank (the spank)]

Originally posted by plmcmahon
AGD already has the "four corner" system:

Low end mechanical (Classic)
High end mechanical (RT Pro)
"Low" end electronic (EMag)
High end electronic (XMag)

It seems like they have that covered.

Right, and they should dump it. I think Apple Computer sells more computers than AGD sells paintball markers. AGD needs a 2 square.

"Low end" (quotes becuase thats a pretty bad *** gun) = ULE rail, frame, body and even trigger etc.. all on a X-Valve.

"High end" = X-Mag

Mass produce the two, options like color and a few add on's and flood shops and sponsor teams with them.

AGD has lost the low end market, actually.. everyone has except kingman. Even if the classic mag was $150 people still wouldn't buy it because people that buy $150 markers are mostly newbies and all they see is a gun that can't do full auto and has neat flashing LED's.

The X-mag needs to be mass produced, and then have a lower end marker in supply. All this middle of the line stuff isn't selling... at least thats what I see on the field. last two weekends at a field that had 100 people on it only two guys had AGD products, I was one of them. the other guy built a really nice mag with a X-valve, minimag vert feed. We both had Flatlines as well. I saw one timmy, about 20 tricked out cockers, maybe 3 impulses and the rest had Spyders in all flavors.

[hitech]

Not everyone even wants an aluminum valve, let alone is willing to pay for it. I for one do NOT want an aluminum valve. I wouldn't trade my stock stainless steel level 10 eMag valve for a XValve. I don't want one. As far as I am concerned, stainless steel is a much better material for the valve. I don't mind the three extra ounces. I like the durability of stainless steel. The extra weight is a reasonable trade off. Long live stainless steel valves.

[WARPED1]

And none of this will happen. Why? Because AGD has a bazillion projects 90% done, so please don't plant any more ideas in that genious(serious, not sarcastic) brain of TK.

[Frank (the spank)]

Originally posted by hitech
Not everyone even wants an aluminum valve, let alone is willing to pay for it. I for one do NOT want an aluminum valve. I wouldn't trade my stock stainless steel level 10 eMag valve for a XValve. I don't want one. As far as I am concerned, stainless steel is a much better material for the valve. I don't mind the three extra ounces. I like the durability of stainless steel. The extra weight is a reasonable trade off. Long live stainless steel valves.

Oh yeah... I love how my old mag valve use to feel in my hands when I would clean it. it's just mags are so damn heavy that anything can help.

Plus the part that actually does wear is still stainless steel. But I can understand why you like it better.

[RetroEclipseMan]

Originally posted by Frank (the spank)


Right, and they should dump it. I think Apple Computer sells more computers than AGD sells paintball markers. AGD needs a 2 square.

"Low end" (quotes becuase thats a pretty bad *** gun) = ULE rail, frame, body and even trigger etc.. all on a X-Valve.

"High end" = X-Mag

Mass produce the two, options like color and a few add on's and flood shops and sponsor teams with them.

AGD has lost the low end market, actually.. everyone has except kingman. Even if the classic mag was $150 people still wouldn't buy it because people that buy $150 markers are mostly newbies and all they see is a gun that can't do full auto and has neat flashing LED's.

The X-mag needs to be mass produced, and then have a lower end marker in supply. All this middle of the line stuff isn't selling... at least thats what I see on the field. last two weekends at a field that had 100 people on it only two guys had AGD products, I was one of them. the other guy built a really nice mag with a X-valve, minimag vert feed. We both had Flatlines as well. I saw one timmy, about 20 tricked out cockers, maybe 3 impulses and the rest had Spyders in all flavors.

Personally, I think it woudln't be a good idea to do this, why, because how many people out there can really afford the price of a new x-mag. The e-mag, for the price, and all the new bodies, ect. is just as good imo and still needed.

[FutureMagOwner]

this system the way they have it is fine like i defined on my paintball site im developing in my web page design class the catagories in my mind go as follows:
low end- tippmanns and such
medium- classic mag
medium high- impulses busmasters the rt pro etc
high- emags basic angels etc
customized high- custom angels, adrenaline impulses, x mag, sfl series, evo cockers etc


agd has all bases covered in areas they can compete in. noone like agd can compete with companys like tippmann and kingman where they mass produce guns that look either A. quasi militaristic, or b. shiny pieces of junk with chrome parts and lcd's that can do 15 bcps!!!(balls chopped a second ) because they cant mass produce and cant hype their products with worthless "upgrades" or change their gun weekly with a new drop foreward and 4 tone annodizing or whatever they are at now.

agd makes products that are solid, fast, well designed, cannot chop, light, small, looks good(in my opinion my emag is ok looking because it has an unmilled slug on it and soon hopefully if it can be done efficient. they make quality products basically and listen to what the customer wants and smashes out something new asap to make their gun better

[Jerhew]

Originally posted by Frank (the spank)

AGD has lost the low end market, actually.. everyone has except kingman. Even if the classic mag was $150 people still wouldn't buy it because people that buy $150 markers are mostly newbies and all they see is a gun that can't do full auto and has neat flashing LED's.

The X-mag needs to be mass produced, and then have a lower end marker in supply. All this middle of the line stuff isn't selling... at least thats what I see on the field. last two weekends at a field that had 100 people on it only two guys had AGD products, I was one of them. the other guy built a really nice mag with a X-valve, minimag vert feed. We both had Flatlines as well. I saw one timmy, about 20 tricked out cockers, maybe 3 impulses and the rest had Spyders in all flavors.

definitely agree with everything that was said
let's face it classic's aren't exactly low end...
you pay what $200 for a gun with no barrel and silly little grips...no vert adaptor...
ya it's cheap...until you add everything else a mag needs:
a barrel, air source, probably some sort of foregrip, drop forward, and some new grips...
it's no longer cheap.

i also have to agree that although a mag works much better on hpa, you have to have a way for someone to run co2 on it.
this is why i considered the aluminum classic valve...
perhaps you could even increase the flow to what the x-valve has without having the rt effect and without level 10.

[*ArKfEaR*]

Take this from a person who hasnt played paintball in a year and hasnt really been into the whole "new" electro cocker, super light mag, 25000 bps angels, etc etc etc scene.

Ok first off EVERY person on this boards mag in some way is exactly the same, and you all end up saying to people who have half upgraded or stock mags the same things.

" FIRST GET LV10 THEN GET I-FRAME, ULE RAIL, ULE BODY, X-vALVE llalalalal"

All of your mags besides colors are pretty much the same...

So why not just make:

Totally new classic mag (different so it isnt considered a classic just uses a revised classic valve)

Aluminum valve, same internals pretty much maybe increased flow, Level 10 stock. AGD ULE Body, Matching ULE Rail, matching i frame (choise of blade, double, single) either nicley milled forgrip (matching) or asa with gas-thru (matching)

Maybe get a deal with dye or something and have matching Dye Ultralights. Matching stickys? Clear Stickys? Black

Wahlah... Ultralight Automag

Keep the X-Mag the same.

and redo the Emag (like the 2004 emag suggestion)

and as for the RT drop it replace with the Ultralight Automag RT (has x-valve instead of "new revised" classic valve)

Still have all aftermarket parts so people with old mags can still do there upgrades.

Wahlah..

Do what WDP did (speed not top of the line in their series but still amazing)

or what WGP did (so many different cockers now , outcast, 2003.. most of them come stock now with hinge frame and matching anno)

Its just makes sense. Probably would make me get an Ultralight RT or classic ...

[TheJester]

also, if you read the new update thread by tom, there's a sentance there that they're starting to look at a low end line as well

[Jerhew]

well ya
low end as in extra and used parts...
that might work for awhile til they run out of them

[askman]

I've sold a lot of used classic mags for about 200 bucks, and I do know that BKO sells fine at 270s. While Newbies will buy spyders and BE, once they break, they tend to gravitate toward something in the 2-350 range. Mags, cockers and tippman all have goods in this price range, except at least locally, people have been steered toward cockers and tippman. (I live close to paintball-online, and they don't seem to sell many mags) They probably think they will do better selling cockers, as people are more prone to spend money on upgrades. This market still rely on CO2, but with dropping prices on N2 tanks, it is slowly being replaced. (I don't think it will completely replace it) I believe Mags can compete in this price range, but it needs to come setup and ready to work with both CO2 and N2 without spending a lot of money on upgrade.

[Catch22]

Man keep everything the way it is. If mags came pre built for you then there wouldn't be a need for this cool forum because you would never wanna do anything to them!

[Frank (the spank)]

I think you guys miss the whole point in streamlining...

When you make only 2 products, you can mass produce those two products. That gives you two advantages.

1. Cheaper cost when you make a lot of the same thing.

2. Availability.

If AGD made only an X-Mag and a "ULE RT Pro" , they would be cheaper and you could actually BUY one today. As small as AGD is they have too many product lines. You can get a RT pro and an E-Mag right now with no problem, but you can't get a ULE body and an X-Mag right now, you gotta wait until they are in stock with the ULE's and get on a waiting list for an X-Mag.

I understand Tom has his reasons about "the backlog is 500 orders and not many more coming in, that isn't a lot", but I don't think what he realizes is people won't pre-order an X-Mag until they try one out, and I myself have never even shot one. Would ANY of you spend $1300 on something you couldn't see in real life first? I know some of you will because it's AGD, but the masses won't, 1 reason may be because AGD has had such a bad rep. They can pick up an Angel Speed at a store and fondle it, they can test fire their friends Speed and then buy one the same day.

The X-Mag is an awesome gun, if people could actually SEE that, then it would sell. You can't put pictures up on a website and say "here, give me $1300"

Tom was disappointed that when he launched the X-Mag they sat in stores even after he promoted it. Well.. yeah! I wouldn't leap into $1300 on something I knew nothing about, there were no reviews yet, the X-Mag was not known for what it is, it was the president of a company saying "trust me, give me money!", of course it didn't sell the very next day it was launched.

Just my opinion.. I think AGD should dump it's legacy products and focus more on what the masses want. The masses don't want a Classic mag, or a high end gun with a plain steel body... they want top performance with awesome looks NOW. Not half a year from now..

Something like what Tunaman makes with a ULE trigger will be a big hit, the X-Mag is already a big hit but people can't get one so instead of waiting on a list for half a year while their friends play with their Angel Speeds.. they're gonna drop their cash somewhere else. I myself have an E-Mag and I think it's the best, but I had to wait for my ULE Body, I would have rather had an X-Mag so I wouldn't have had upgrade parts out of the box. *I* decided to wait and upgrade because I know what a great company AGD is and I knew I was getting the best, but.. not everyone else does. When I told my buddies I got an E-Mag the first thing they said was "for that money you shoulda got an Angel Speed". When they shot it (yes, SHOT IT) they retraced those statements. if they never shot it they would still think my gun was a hard short stroking triggering shootdown blender, again... they shot it and thought differently. I play at 4 different fields in Northern California and everytime I walk on with my E-Mag everyone says "I've never seen one of those in person" and after my first game they all say "damn that thing is fast! can I try it?"

[Lopy-slopy]

If you made the clasic valves all the same except for the dump chamber as X-valves wouldn't they cost about as much as X-valves, and the X-valve is more expensive than a 68, so basicly you have to add like 100 bucks to the cost of automag's0!! I think AGD is fine the way it is and changeing all this would make every mag look the same and they would be boring guns, not to mention the fact that it would cost AGD alot to make all those changes, I say keep it the way it is.

[Konigballer]

Frank (the spank) speakith tha truth. Anyways why not kill the classic, saying its competetive or meant to compete with other mid level guns like the Tip98 and Pirahna is a total joke. Who in their right mind uses a stock classic. It just takes up space one their product line! Stores dont even advertise them in magazines anymore, I think some sort of ULE bodied classic is a good idea.