Brass Eagle, Evil empire.

[BobTheCow]

Originally posted by walker2287
Be doent expect anyone 2 use their guns in tournys

they do have a factory team...

[Smokee_2_7]

. . .and the last time i saw a picture of them, they were shooting angels.

[hAppy]

Originally posted by Smokee_2_7
. . .and the last time i saw a picture of them, they were shooting angels.

true, they dont even like their own guns

[Gunga]

Re: BOYCOT Viewloader

Originally posted by TAW
One hopper hit the first time I played with my smoke revy and it's broken.

I know this isn't gonna help with BE's product quality, but you could always use a Warp Feed and avoid those hopper hits. :)

Yes, that was a shameless plug.

[funkmunky56]

my comment goes somewhat along with the above one...

here's a suggestion: DON'T GET SHOT IN THE HOPPER! practice your form a little better, use a mirror in a hallway, or some other way to see how much you're actually hanging out of bunkers, and correct it. If products were built to be indestructible, WE COULDN'T AFFORD TO BUY THEM. Haven't you ever heard of the saying:

Cheap, Fast, and Good: Pick any two and get out.

BE sells a LOT of product, and they sell it cheaply... but it's not necessarily the highest quality. It it was "good" and as readily available "fast", it couldn't, by the laws of business, be "cheap"

buy something else if you want it, but don't expect BE to quit doing what's working for them.

done ranting. Now here's the obligatory smiley face, so y'all don't think I'm getting too personal and pissed.



--Dave

[xadamx]

Originally posted by funkmunky56
Haven't you ever heard of the saying:

Cheap, Fast, and Good: Pick any two and get out.

thank you mister tom kaye haha im just kidding with you

[beefstew]

Alright. not to be scientific about it or anything, but i took my egg out a couple of weeks ago to see just how easily they would break. It took me 167 shots (i shot 170 some hit feed neck) To have a crack in the eggo, and this was just a small hairline fracture. mind you this was with a black shelled eggo, which are stronger (imho) then the clear in my experiance. I have never had a hopper break on the field, have two pre be 12vs and three post, as well as three eggos (black, Clear, now a new black one) as well as a halo. I love my halo, but the eggo is lighter and almost (ALMOST) as fast. In fact, BE stuff from companys that they bought (JT and VL) Dont seem to be much, if any worse then it was before.
-Phil--

[Kevmaster]

insted of SPECULATING on these things as you do, i offer FACT. Where do i get them...talking with BE execs...VP of sales, R&D Product manager, VP of Marketing, Sales Rep...etc....


1) the markers. YES. The plastic on the blade is cheap. YES it is also cheap on the samurai, talon, and sabre. DO you know how hard it is to make money on a product that retails at $50? Pretty damn hard. They are not designed to last for many years, yet some do anyways. Funny, huh? They are designed for a new player in mind to get 15-20 days of play out of them....then go kaput. Think about a blade...thats paying $1/day to rent a blade...not a bad deal. And thats with no mainenance. Most wouldnt expect their $200-500 gun to work for ONE YEAR without ANY mainenance. just gas it up each day and shoot. good luck NEVER oiling that level ten on your mag...or good luck never lubing your shocker. I hope it lasts a year without breaking.
They are cheap...but you buy them knowing that. you cant compare nor expect a blade to preform as well as an angel. you're paying 50-60 times as much for an angel!! Yes, the quality is better on an angel...no ****! it should be. There you pay for the marker to last longer than a couple years.

R&D at BE is pretty extensive. For the murader, for example, BE made a machine that drops the marker at different angles to measure how it did while holding air when dropped. Yep....there went 50 markers. Lets see...they also hooked one up to a machine (wait...no...they hooked 15 different ones to a machine) and cycled it 5 times per second for 200,000 cycles. non stop. then re-oiled it, replaced all the seals and did that 4 more times. I call that pretty extensive testing. Then they gave away 100 to be put into the harshest environment yet: NEWBIEs as rentals. Yep...they made 100 preform flawlessly as rentals at a BE dealer's field before releasing them.

moving on...
2) VL Revvie Hopper since BE bought VL.
a) be notices that the molds VL uses to make the shells are worn and replaces them. this restores the hopper size back to 1" neck...not the close to 1 1/16" neck they had when BE bought them (but were supposed to have 1"). Everyone yells at BE for changing it back to how it should be.
b) BE introduces the X-Board. Yep...faster board than the current VL boards and no problems with sun. Fixed one problem
c) BE makes a poly-procarbonate (i think thats what its called) shell to prevent cracking the hopper. BE does testing on this as noted above (similar tests...just with a hopper). BE finds it works great...so they order tons of the stuff and start making hoppers...3-4 months later after who-knows-how-many thousand have been sold and are on the shelves and many more are in warehouses....BE notices the batch of poly-whatever was bad and that it is way too brittle.
d) BE offers a FULL repalcement to everyone who owns one in existnace. they are going to continue selling the current ones they own, but if it breaks on you within 3 months (90 days) they will replace the shell for FREE. After that the new shells only cost ~$15 for both).

so....what about the revvie right now compared with pre-be? Faster? Yes. Tougher? Yes.
Id say a brand new revvie made yesterday is better than one made by VL back in the day

making a short jump to the e-vlution....
3) the eVLution I and II toboggle
Tex (owner of Odyssey) worked at VL when they were initally developing the Eggo I. He also masterminded the original Revvie. He then left right before BE bought VL and went to do his own thing. Assuming he knew his stuff BE went forth with the eVLution....big mistake. It bombed. The necks snapped, the thing jammed and it didnt feed fast enough. BE stops production quickly. The research a new Evlution II...faster...stronger....better. They come up with hte current model and R&D it and then release it. As a kindness to those who owned eggo Is, at the World Cup 2002, BE took back EVERY EGGO I and EXCHANGED IT for an Eggo II...no trade in program like agd has where you pay $50 to upgrade...straight up trade...no out of pocket expense for the owner of the eggo I. To the best of my knowledge, if you call BE today they may still take back your eggo I and exchange it for an eggo II...all you pay is shipping to BE. I dont think i've heard of ANYONE complaining about the feed necks on eggo IIs breaking nor shells breaking on Eggo IIs....so the plastic they used there sounds pretty strong to me

Now another jump over to the JT situation.
4) One product JT has developed has been recalled...hte original proteuses. BE noticed after the initial ones went out the lenses were bad and so they quickly remedeyed the problem and sent out a recall. what did you get with hte recall...send your proteus to BE and they would REPLACE IT for FREE with a new better version. Were the face protectors bad? no. Did they replace them anyways? yes. Was the lens the only problem? yes. would it have been easier to just send the user a new lens? yes. safer? no. BE noticed a problem and did their best to fix it because it was a saftey issue. they don't want you getting hurt any more than you want to get hurt.
on a side note....I see recalls every DAY on TV...my local news station makes 3-5 recalls every day on the news. My car...its had two recalls since i bought it two years ago. Recalls show resonsibility....covering it up shows a problem
--I dont think you've noticed ANY product problems with he JT stuff. Everyone LOVES the JT markers. Everyone LOVES JT's new line of gear...expansion that wouldnt have been possible without BE's money.
----Also, If you notice, BE doesnt even directly control JT. They own JT and take their profits....but they dont control JT the way they control VL. JT is localed in Cali...whereas BE is in Arkansas.


And to finish off the rant...
Customer Serivce.
5) People call BE's customer service ****ty. Well...
first, its not that bad. In fact, ive witnessed a BE tech help a guy with a raptor disassemble the thing to get the cup seal out. this guy had no clue what he was doing, but the BE tech didnt stop helping him or get mad. he just continued working. that little problem took him 35 minutes to fix.....a dedicated person. sure, thats one example of one time, how did i witness it? I've never been to Arkansas....oh....that was me 4 years ago....aaahhh. their recall prodedure on the VL hopper shells and JT proteus masks seems more than fair. they go far out of their way to get the customer happy in both of those cases.

second, think about the massive undertaking to give the customer service AGD gives. They have MAYBE 250,000 mags out there....prolly not that many. Lets assume they do though. BE has lets see....more stingrays than EVERY OTHER GUN COMBINED. Numbers on the Talon, Blade are approaching that. They have a couple hundred thousand tigersharks, raptors and samurais. Chances are the sabre and murader will get there soon. Can you imagine how hard it would be to tech all these if they were made as well as an AGD marker? If they were made to last for a lifetime? Come on...thats impossible. When you buy the marker, it comes with a NINTY DAY warranty. This will cover any factory defect...after that you're on your own. You can argue this is unfair, but BE is unable to give lifetime service on a marker they make $3 on. To offer this, they would have to jack the prices up close to double on the low end stuff.


'oh...i remember another thing people diss (and this is short):
6) BE Paint. yep...the clasic arguement..their balls are ovals. Yes, indeed they are. But lemme tell you this: if you bought HELLFIRE and put it in a warehouse that reaches 90* in the summer and 10* in the winter and left it there for two years and then tried to go play with it...you would be VERY Disapointed in that $80 case of paint. When new, (and ive shot new BE stuff) BE paint is pretty damn nice. I like it in fact, you just cant get it new. And yes, Wal Mart does let BE stuff sit on the shelves for two years or more. Just three weeks ago I saw a BE paint for sale that hasnt been made in two and a half years....so

hope you enjoyed reading and are now a little more informed in life that you were before. So before you start complaining, learn the facts.....

Kev
(no, i do not work for brass eagle)



and remember this: before you start dissing BE...remember: they know their stuff--better than anyone else. I don't know of a single other PB company that is publicly held and traded on Nasdaq. I dont know of another company that had 10M in NET PROFITS last year....yes they made $10,000,000 with only taking in 110,000,000...im no broker...but thats pretty damn good.

[Kevmaster]

oops...forgot the BOO-YAH!!

[hAppy]

that was convincing good job kev

[Lopy-slopy]

Them being publicly traded doen't make them any better than any other pb comapny. And showing how good they are at making profets just shows you that they are spending alot oftime worring about profet when they could worry about quality controll. I dont care about BE products, they suck, but their made for noobs. I just don't like them taking over other companies that are mainstreem and creating problems. Even though they did fix the proteus problem, JT never had a problem like that and I don't think they would have had that problem if they still owned it. And VL never accidently put in the wrong amout of this and that into their revvies, they took the time to make them right the first time. And if they did they never would have released them. But I gess if they keep them all back that would cut into their 10,000,000 in profits. I know you can send it in to get them replaced but half the time they send back the same week shells, ive heard many stories about people sending theirs in and getting it back and it breaking again. If they wanted to fix the problem they would get them out of stores, but there still their and people still have to buy them when their shell breaks. I think they would have come out with some sort of speed inhancing thing anyway without BE, every companie is doing that.

Bottom line, they may pump more money into compaies, but they create many problems and are un willing to properly fix them, they havn't recalled the revies, they just wait for people to hear that they can get new shells and then send them some more of the bad shells. When their is a problem with something, even a small one, tom provides, and tries to make everybody happy. BE has done a realy bad job with the revvies and It will tarnish them forever. Not like their rep could get any worse. BE is more worried about profet than quality.
just my 2 cents.

[G-Rock]

Kevmaster!!!!

My new hero!!!

Chris Geiger

[Kevmaster]

Originally posted by Lopy-slopy
Them being publicly traded doen't make them any better than any other pb comapny. And showing how good they are at making profets just shows you that they are spending alot oftime worring about profet when they could worry about quality controll. I dont care about BE products, they suck, but their made for noobs. I just don't like them taking over other companies that are mainstreem and creating problems. Even though they did fix the proteus problem, JT never had a problem like that and I don't think they would have had that problem if they still owned it. And VL never accidently put in the wrong amout of this and that into their revvies, they took the time to make them right the first time. And if they did they never would have released them. But I gess if they keep them all back that would cut into their 10,000,000 in profits. I know you can send it in to get them replaced but half the time they send back the same week shells, ive heard many stories about people sending theirs in and getting it back and it breaking again. If they wanted to fix the problem they would get them out of stores, but there still their and people still have to buy them when their shell breaks. I think they would have come out with some sort of speed inhancing thing anyway without BE, every companie is doing that.

Bottom line, they may pump more money into compaies, but they create many problems and are un willing to properly fix them, they havn't recalled the revies, they just wait for people to hear that they can get new shells and then send them some more of the bad shells. When their is a problem with something, even a small one, tom provides, and tries to make everybody happy. BE has done a realy bad job with the revvies and It will tarnish them forever. Not like their rep could get any worse. BE is more worried about profet than quality.
just my 2 cents.

all you did was restate my info in a negative light.

yes they're made for newbs. if you think that all inexpensive items inherently suck, then thats your opinion. I addressed teh fact that they do have quality control. they dont want a bad product on the streets. that makes them pay out of their pockets to replace it...cutting into that profit margin they are so concerned with (**rolls eyes**).

As I clearly explained, BE purchases plastic from a supplier. They dont manufacture plastic. They assumed the thousands of gallons they ordered were correctly made. Well, they learned otherwise, and I can promice you that from now on they wont do that. what else has BE done thats so bad as you said to tarnish them forever. They break, they replace them. they added a feature to them (Xboard) and restandardized them after VL had let their Quality Control go to the crapper (1" feed necks)

JT's lenses on the proteus were an honest mistake. The Super Bolt from AGD was an honest mistake. What did AGD do? stop production. Did they offer to send you a new LX bolt for free? no. Did they offer to buy it back? no. did tey give you jack ****? $30 off a LX purchase...whop-te-friggin-do. JT leneses were bad...they gave you a whole new mask. BE's revvie shells SOME OF THEM ARE BAD. What do they do? offer you free ones if yours breaks. Seems like they are going further than AGD is going on the Super Bolts buddy



so basically, you are the typical BE basher who as no real...even quazi evidence to substantiate what you are speaking on, but you think you're cool and will gain acceptance by bashing BE. If thats what it takes for you to be cool here at AO...well...try it. You'll quickly find that AO is one of the only places that doesnt respeect hype and respects facts

[Kevmaster]

oh...i forgot this earlier....

the BE All Stars and VL All Stars are sponsored by more than just BE or VL. They use other markers because they are paid too. That and BE has no marker they want to show off at the pro level

[Brak]

hahahaha! i have a pre-BE revvy, and while it might not shoot as fast, ive taken many hopper hits (becuase i suck) and nothing broke!!!