AGD status on flatline reg seats?????

[Jonesie]

IIRC, the reg seat is what held up the initial release of the 4500... I think there was a warping problem with them?

In fact, here is the thread: http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...+Flatline+seat

It would seem as though the reg seat has been the achilles heel of the 4500...

And to throw in my $.02 on the rumor mill, I had the guy at my local shop call AGD on Tuesday. According to Jon, they are testing prototypes, once the results are in, they should be available. That's what I was told this past Tuesday, June 17, 2003. :)

Jonesie

[SlartyBartFast]

It's VERY poor business practice to have only one company making a difficult to get part. You should never have less than two suppliers for a critical part EVEN if that means paying more due to lower production. It's like paying an insurance policy. Granted something like the reg seat may be made in tiny quantities, but still.

The arguments about cheap parts from overseas is also bogus and tiring. Production of mature products could be outsourced to a reputable shop (US or elsewhere) and still maintain high quality standards.

Tom seems to enjoy the tinkering/development side of the business. Perhaps it would be to everyone's benefit if someone was put in charge of ongoing production and growing business for the current product line. That way critical suppliers might be replaced BEFORE there's a crisis and increased attention to production may lower costs and increase availability and sales.

[Animal Mother]

Take your time with Y grips.. warp ULE's.. all NEW stuff.. but damn, fix your current product line.

[DocRocker]

my opinion

I agree... you should never rely on one company for a part.
It does seem that every other company seems to be able to get products out at a reasonable amount of time. Being known for reliabilty is one thing but to explain all these delays by that is another thing. Give me a break this isnt a ferrari.

I guess if the plans were to sell only like 20 of these a year than this much attention needs to be spent.
But if youre really looking to sell a good number of these than I think the designs need to be more simplistic and use parts that are already available. Otherwise as every day goes by, thats just another sales opportunity being missed.

I remember when the sp shocker and impulse came out and they had all those problems... but look at them there's many more of those guns out there than mags. Dont get me wrong cause I own an emag (have always owned a mag since the original came out) and I love it and wouldnt ever trade it for anything else (well except an x-mag of course)
However, I think at some point this whole "quality takes time" deal is just going to wear people's interest and patience out.

I rarely here people out there say how they have to wait 6 mo for an angel, some supped up cocker or impulse. The more guns ou get out there the more people will talk about them.

I guess since I really dont know how well AGD is doing financially its hard to say if they are truly happy with how things are going. If they are doing well than I guess you stick with the proverb of "dont fix what aint broke." but if they think the longevity of the company is at stake then different tatics will be needed.

Thats just my 2 cents thats all. Nothing more and nothing less than just a simple opinion

[rdb123]

Grrrr, I was just told by Extreme Rage that the reason my Flatline leaked out the front where you adjust the input to marker pressure was due to a bad reg seat...Oh well, isn't too bad since I don't have my SFL to play with anyway. However, I do agree that it is somewhat weird that the $300+ tank needs a $2 part to hold it up which is NOT being mass-produced. As it stands now, my tank is just good for wasting air until those new seats are available.

Extra note: I had a deal with a buyer going regarding the sale of my 68/4500 flatline, but I had to cut off the deal due to the bad reg seat. So now I can't even get cash out of my tank; it is just a $300 hole placed in my wallet.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, my Flatline has been dead for about 2+ months now--I'm just happy that that wasn't my ONLY tank.

[LongDuckDong]

My Flatline is my only tank..... I am screwed when my 50 cent o-ring breaks.

[rdb123]

Errr, actually, you're screwed when the red colored reg seat breaks.

[John Sosta, AGD Europe]

Flatline 4500 reg seals

I thought I may answer this one for Tom, as Tom may have told you the flatline 4500 reg seat is made over here in the UK.
When the flatline was first developed we sent Tom a seal that was machined from a bar on a cnc, These seals worked very well after testing Tom gave the go ahead to get more made and incorporated it into the flatline 4500 design, when I went back to the machine shop they could not make the seals in the quantities that AGD needed so we decided to have them molded but they did not turn out right so a new development cycle started again and couple this with other companies being involved puts certain timeframes out of our control, but I wont bore you anymore with that story its just an outline of what happened.
We are pleased to say that the new seal is in production as we speak and as soon as we get them we will dispatch them to Tom we are sorry that its took a while but we wanted to get it right as to develop something like this takes a lot of time and money as each time you have to change the mould the molders charge you and each time you try a new material they charge you, we have tried over 30 different materials so you can imagine the costs involved, when we get samples they have to be tested by us here and AGD over there so shipping time gets involved and the timeframe gets bigger.
After all this we do not want to release them prematurely and get them wrong.
As it stands at the moment we have a new seal that is of different material and shape and should flow and seal much better than current seals and I should have them in my hands any day now and Tom will have them maybe a day later or as fast as it takes to ship from the UK to the USA
I hope this clears up some of your questions
Thanks
JOHN

[Dayspring]

Now, these seats aren't the ones that AGDJon has been using right? Cuz he said that after about 1000 shots, he has to let it sit and rest b/c the seat deforms too much to be usable.

Just curious.

[John Sosta, AGD Europe]

Nope the new seats are white and do not deform its part of the reason why they took so long to develope.

[Miscue]

Yay! ETA?

[LongDuckDong]

Thank you very much John, that is very good word.

[Muzikman]

Miscue, Learn to read...

"We are pleased to say that the new seal is in production as we speak and as soon as we get them we will dispatch them to Tom we are sorry that its took a while but we wanted to get it right as to develop something like this takes a lot of time and money as each time you have to change the mould the molders charge you and each time you try a new material they charge you, we have tried over 30 different materials so you can imagine the costs involved, when we get samples they have to be tested by us here and AGD over there so shipping time gets involved and the timeframe gets bigger."

[fire1811]

John Sosta, AGD Europe
THANK YOU
finally an explination/answer
that is all i wanted

thanks

[Miscue]

Hey, an AGD 'soon' could be next week or next year!