Would you Save the Industry if it Cost you a MILLION BUCKS?

[Star_Base_CGI]

Originally posted by WarBUCKs
To be honest, I would not even try to save the paintball industry myself. I believe that everyone involved in the sport should save the industry in their own way.

Well, I really don't know who or what I would be saving it from, but maybe The People, The companies or The Government

The People: IMHO, I believe that the quality of people has been on the decline during the last 5 years of the sport. There is too much attitude, resentment, cheating and social agendas that occur on todays fields. Everyone is to caught up in themselves and only care whether they win or lose and not about the good time.

Would I spend 1 million dollars to save it from the people who have formed it into what it has become? Hell no. Why? First, I can't change anyones mind on "how cool" they are and how they act. Second, saving people like this isn't a worthy enough cause. The people make it how they want it.

The people of paintball are responsible for what goes on and innovations in the industry. They push companies further to acheive better guns and products. Right now, it seems as if speed is the only thing that is driving the paintball industry into the future. Maybe that could be a downfall.


The Companies: SP is probably going to enforce their patents against all the other companies in the paintball industry (from what I read, but I haven't read thoroughly cuz I lack interest in that). What stops all other companies from beginning to enforce their recent patents that they haven't enforced? I really don't see the good of this for the future of the sport and revenue for a company. People are greedy and so are corporations, what can you do about it?

Now, If a non-profit organization (NPO) was setup to help battle the companies that are hurting the industry, I would be all for that. This way if someone were to use a million dollars to prevent damage to a hurting industry it would be used as a write off for the company (Ex. AGD). Doing it this way could even gather donations from around the world to help fight the problems which might lead to more money to save the industry, but then you deal with "The People."

I still wouldn't support the spending of 1 companies money, but a group of companies or a paintball committee that could be used to fight upcoming problems with organizations in the future might be a good idea. (See NPO above)


The Government: This is a good one and I think Doc Nickel had a good example of OSHA dropping velocties to a max of 125fps. I don't think this would happen anytime soon unless there was a upsurge of high velocity related deaths in less than a year.

Now, fighting the government may be a bit harder and wouldn't even be worth spending the money. If OSHA wanted to drop the velocities, they are going to do it and it might take Tens of Millions of dollars to convince them otherwise. I wouldn't even try this one.

I don't think Tom is talking about the government increasing more restrictive controls on paintball players in the future, but I may be wrong. I do believe that a fight against the government wouldn't get you very far. Especially the Feds.

To me an 80% chance is still a high risk investment. It is like taking a test and automatically losing 20%, just for the hell of it. During the test there are 5 questions that you don't know the answer to cuz it wasn't in the book and when you get the test back, you have a 65% on it. Is that logical. You knows what we are saving here and what the possibilites are. If it were an arugument against something Tom was extremely well knowledged at or developed himself I would certainly give him an 80% chance though. I did notice he said "If" to start that 80% sentence.

Well, I speculated on what we are saving for a million dollars and gave my oppinon on 3 different subjects.

I hope my opinion helps Tom!!!


Rob

Lots of Good points here.

1. The people! Bunker them! Put them in their place.

2. The companies. Bunker them too.

3. The government. ive seen more injustice by the government in the last 5 years than Ive seen in my first 28 years. The like to oppress people with Taxs and regualtions. So I would put it past them to do this.

Id say get a lawyer and sue the government. You can sue the government. Get a class action lawsuit and say there trying to destory Paintball. Use stattistics to shows it safe and than send them to Bowling which is less safe to Sue for damages.

Than show how the army and the police use paintball. Point to the contituion and proclaim they are arms.

But with emisions testing and all the regulations, redlight cameras and taxs we have to pay nowadays, it wouldnt surprise me at all.

[Recon by Fire]

Damn, somebody watch StarbasCGI. You're starting to sound like a member of the conspiracy militia j/k

Yes, you can sue the government, if they allow you too!

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by shartley
Come on, for the player, it is a GAME. And no one activity that I do for fun is worth that much money.

I wasn't going to bring this up but Shartley opened this can of worms. If it is truly a million for altruistic reasons Shartely is right on. I mean it is a game. People die of starvation yet many people clamor for a million dollars to "save the paintball industry"?

If it is a good BUSINESS decision that is one thing. If it is a donation "for world good" then a most definite NO.

[lack of grace]

in a second

In a heartbeat....Paintball personally means alot to me. And in my world, If something means alot to you, and that thing is threatened, you do what it takes, no questions asked.

You can't put a price on passion and love.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

If I had $1,000,000

Tom,

Never gamble with money you can't afford to lose.

A person's first responsibilities are to themselves and their family and then their employees and clients. If I need the $1M bet to succeed in order to save my company (i.e., no bet = lose, lose bet = lose), and I can do it without risking poverty for my children, I would do it.


For the rest of you:

The industry and the sport are one and the same. We're not playing dodgeball, folks. We need a steady stream of paintballs, masks and spare parts (at the very least) in order to keep playing this sport. Sure, if the industry died you can play in the woods, and you can get spare parts for your guns machined locally. Where do the lenses come from? And the paintballs?

There are a lot of things I don't admire in the industry, either, but to save the industry is to save the sport.

[Albinonewt]

Re: Would you Save the Industry if it Cost you a MILLION BUCKS?

Originally posted by AGD
AO,

I want to ask a simple question. If there was an 80% chance of you saving the industry, but it was guaranteed to cost you a million bucks, would you do it?
AGD

If it was a legitimate chance, and involved no breaking of laws or unethical behavior, I would call my broker and get him out of bed to scrape together the cash (which could be done, albiet painfully).

I've only been into paintball now for a little less then a year, but I completely dig it. I've always grown up with guns and the desire to join the armed forces and wage war, but when I was 13 I had an "incident" that caused a lingering heart condition that made it impossible for me to serve, so paintball for me is kind of the hobbization of what I wanted to do for a living but can't. And I would do whatever I could to keep it around.

[Kaiser Bob]

Since im a degenerate gambler, id let lady luck decide. I would take that mil, go to a high limit oasis at a casino and start gambling it; if i went down to half i would walk away 500,000 dollars poorer for trying, but 500,000 richer then if i had tryed to save the industry and still failed. If i doubled my money id walk with that extra mil and it would be out there the next day trying to do whatever it is supposed to be doing to save paintball, and i didnt lose a cent.

Anyways, to throw in something useful to my post, 1 million dollars dosent seem to ridiculous to gamble when trying to save a multi billion dollar a year industry and the returns alone seem to be worth it.

[cockermongol]

Re: If I had $1,000,000

Originally posted by Jeffy-CanCon

The industry and the sport are one and the same. We're not playing dodgeball, folks. We need a steady stream of paintballs, masks and spare parts (at the very least) in order to keep playing this sport. Sure, if the industry died you can play in the woods, and you can get spare parts for your guns machined locally. Where do the lenses come from? And the paintballs?

There are a lot of things I don't admire in the industry, either, but to save the industry is to save the sport.

I don't agree with this. The Industry and the Sport of Paintball are different. Even if the Industry falls, the Sport will remain. Supply and demand. All of a sudden there would be opened doors for hundreds of companies to fill because the old ones had been sued into bankruptcy.

Think of it like this:
Two competeing manufacturers are tied up in a law suit for designs of football helmets. The manufacturer that wins the law suit takes the money and runs. So, no more football? NOPE. You better believe another company will fill the "helmet-producing" spot. Because, like paintball, football will never die even if the Industry takes a fall.

[beam]

NO!

Paying the money only means that you aren't creative enought to find another way. And just because we haven't thought of the "other" way, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Also, is the industry going to go under without electros? Did it go under without full-auto? I think a decline in electros would be kinda fun.

[Benfica4ever]

I would do it if i had 2 million bux

[Albinonewt]

Tom:

The more I think about your question (and it's been basically the only thing on my mind for close to half a day now) not only do you I think you should do it, I honestly believe your sort of obligated to do it.

There are really a handful of guys that have made this industry and sport what it is today, and you're one of those guys. I think that it would be insulting to hobby you love and the industry you helped to create to turn your back because of a monetary consideration. I tend not to delve too deeply into themes that use words like honor and code, but in this case I really think that there is a moral imperative. As one of the creators of the industry I think you're sort of obligated to see it through to the end, one way or the other.

Just my two cents, but I know that when I have a hand in creating something I feel responsible for it even when it's no longer the exact creature I created.

[strongbadfan]

Originally posted by Albinonewt
Tom:

The more I think about your question (and it's been basically the only thing on my mind for close to half a day now) not only do you I think you should do it, I honestly believe your sort of obligated to do it.

There are really a handful of guys that have made this industry and sport what it is today, and you're one of those guys. I think that it would be insulting to hobby you love and the industry you helped to create to turn your back because of a monetary consideration. I tend not to delve too deeply into themes that use words like honor and code, but in this case I really think that there is a moral imperative. As one of the creators of the industry I think you're sort of obligated to see it through to the end, one way or the other.

Just my two cents, but I know that when I have a hand in
creating something I feel responsible for it even when it's no longer the exact creature I created.

I dont think Tom is obligated to give one million. If I started a successful company, and then retired, I wouldn't feel at all obligated to give my retirement fund if the company ebgan to decline. How is he obligated to give up his hard earned money?

[CrazyLad]

well it all depends on how much money you have...Chances are really good though so if you had the money i do it.

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by strongbadfan


I dont think Tom is obligated to give one million. If I started a successful company, and then retired, I wouldn't feel at all obligated to give my retirement fund if the company ebgan to decline. How is he obligated to give up his hard earned money?

Which is where you and I differ. It's a question of honor and a sense of duty. Either you feel the obligation or you don't. It really can't be explained or taught.

Although there's nothing wrong with the standard take the money and run approach (really there isn't and I don't mean to imply that there is) just for some people it's not enough. For me, it would mean more to me that my creation was in jeopardy of collapse then it keeping my cash in the bank. Especially since it is extremely likely that my creation is what put that money in the bank in the first place. When you add to the fact all the people and businesses that the creation has effected I would feel a very strong sense of duty to correct whatever has gone wrong. More of an obligation then anything else.

If you don't get it that's ok. It just means we differ in this regard.

[MaChu]

To all of you who say how the industry has lost sight of "for the good of the industry",

Has it ever had a mentality of for the good of the sport and player? The industry I think ever since the beginning has been thinking nothing but money. Its business in our time and age. Corporate greed. Now there are a few companies that do think for the good of the sport, AGD is one of those honorable few, I think WGP is another, some of the old school companies like PMI, the first few with semi's.

To save the industry, I say no. It doesn't deserve it. Now if AGD, WGP, etc, the companies that actually care about the sport as a whole, I would save them in a heartbeat.

IF the sport was in jeopardy, go ahead spend that million, Ill throw in my money and I bet a bunch of other people would too because paintball really important to a lot of people. It gives them a sense of belonging working with a team, gives them a sense of worth having a "cool" gun, gives them a sense of happiness winning the game. If the sport was in jeopardy, I couldn't see it stop.

I think the SP lawsuit should go through personally. It seems bad, but look at what it has been doing now. People all over the net are uniting against one thing, one paintball social injustice, which Ive never seen before. SP wins the case, the sport will take morally in a turn for the good, people will stop thinking of themselves and more about the good of fellow paintballers. Sure we will lose electronic guns, the material aspect, but like people have posted before, a semi revolution will begin. Mags, Cockers, various high quality blowbacks will reign supreme, heck we might even see more inovative designs. Right now it seems grim, but in the big picture paintball always looks like it has one way to go and that is to the glory of being a world wide accepted sport.