Man ... gotta love this continued arguement ....

[Grasshopper]

I love those myths. My friend (Buttloaf) is always trying to exlpain physics to me and why a 'Cocker is more acurate and shoots further than my 'Mag. I'll have to show him this link

[FooTemps]

could someone just type a paper on this and make it a deep blue sticky?

[Ityl]

Re: Man ... gotta love this continued arguement ....

Originally posted by lopxtc


As a person who used to shoot autocockers since early 1993, I also used to believe this fallacy, but having been present when the case was proven (my friends physics test) it is not true. Accuracy in paintball is determined solely by paint to barrel match. All markers fire at the exact same point, with the bolt all the way forward and the breech full sealed. Assuming the both markers have an equal paint to barrel match. only user intervention can further affect accuracy.

You are trying to explain the interworkings for the atom with high school physics. I don't claim to know everything, but you, like many as of late in paintball, are oversimplifying physics.

First off, accuracy is not just paint to barrel match. What about consistency in the regulator? valving? All markers fire at the exact same point? fully sealed? What? If the breach was fully sealed then there would be no blowback.

What about how the ball is accelerated? How the air hits the ball and puts it into a slight spin?

Then we can bring in tolerances. Autococker (good tolerances) and a Spyder (not so good) don't have the same accuracy, sorry, real world testing shows otherwise.

All guns do not shoot the same. All guns don't have the same accuracy and range. BUT...how much is the difference? Can we see it? measure it?

We don't live in a perfect world with perfect equations.

[Miscue]

Most if not all of your points were addressed if you had read.

The marker has no control over the ball once it has left the barrel. Whatever spin/speed it has, can no longer be effected by the gun. A 300fps exit velocity at 0 fps/sec acceleration of one ball is identical to same ball at same velocity from a different gun. You cannot accelerate the ball once the ball has left the barrel/pressure chamber. You don't need formal physics to understand this, just a brain.

Spin is the only other factor. Refer to AGD's articles on paintball spin - the point is moot.

You've sneered, but you have not supported your ideas.

[mr_mich]

Re: Re: Man ... gotta love this continued arguement ....

Originally posted by Ityl
We don't live in a perfect world with perfect equations.

...yet!

On a more serious note, I've been mixed up on this issue ever since I've been told that consistency/paint to barrel match are the only factors in accuracy.

On paper, it makes a whole world of sense. Other than environmental factors (like wind) that would affect a gun shooting next to it, those two are logical. Like I said, on paper, it sounds like a golden award-winning theory. Then again, so did communism.

Now, I'm not saying that it's all BS. But I seriously think that if you could put a freak set and a Stabilizer on a Spyder and have it shoot as accurately as a matrix, you'd see all the upper-end recballers playing with E-framed, beefed up spyders.

I realize that kick is a big issue with your gun. I was shooting my sister's Piranha yesterday, and I realized how much more kick it had than my matrix or my Nasty ever did, but I can't help but wonder why her shots (properly matched to the barrel) would still curve like frisbees while mine were just flat-out darts.

I can't think of an answer. Maybe we won't ever find one. But I think I know what ISN'T the answer. The gun itself can't be the only factor, but my bad eyes might just be leading me to believe that paint/barrel match and consistency aren't the only factors either.

[yeahthatsme]

*cough* Flatline barrel is for distance not accuracy *cough* ...

wow.... flatlines dont shoot slower, and they do help with accuracy, the reason that flatlines look like they shoot slower is becuase the ball is following a much more predictable path then normal, so its easy to see the ball.

[xrancid_milkx]

Originally posted by yeahthatsme


wow.... flatlines dont shoot slower, and they do help with accuracy, the reason that flatlines look like they shoot slower is becuase the ball is following a much more predictable path then normal, so its easy to see the ball.

By the time a paintball has reached its target (considering the target is a ways out there), the Magnus effect has caused it to lose most of its kenetic energy to the point unless the ball hits a hard surface it will merely bounce off the target.

There, I sounded kind of smart. Kind of.

[Bad_Dog]

Get yourself some cough medicine, and come back later

LOL
thats just like slapping him in the face...

[wobbles82]

The flatline actually does make things a bit less accurate, not help them. It does its job, add range, but other than that it takes everything off the ball and lets them float. Therefore a simple movement of winds, or intolerance can make a ball go horribly innaccurate. Simply said the Flatline does decrease accuracy. As for the argument of straight shooting markers, always consider something that many initially forget. RECOIL! BLOWBACK! KICK! Whatever you may call it, its a driving force in many markers. Bad Company themselves use Spyder AMGS, adjustable barrel kits, and very nice nitrogen setups. What they also do is lock that marker onto them like its nobodies busines, a marker that is locked tight and giving no kick, is a marker that shoots straight. With most high-end guns though holding a marker very tight is not always needed, as some are built to reduce kick. I know my RTPX has NOTHING as for kick, with a tight match, it shoots like a dream. I also use a custom Impulse (oh its sweet ) at practice sometimes, and I will note that this marker does give a bit of kick. Maybe that is why the kid said his Imp doesnt shoot as far? I doubt the range, but as for accuracy once you get this marker going it starts rising and lowering a bit. And as for the Matrix, the person saying it shoots closest to an Autococker, I find that statement quite wrong. Most high end markers have lack of kick or blowback, so most high-end markers shoot "like a cocker". The Matrix just initially has almost no blowback because it has no bolt, but then again my Automag has zero to no blowback because I have the marker locked onto me tight, and the bolt doesn't slam incredibly hard. Soooooooo, after all that nonsense I just talked what I guess im trying to say is always consider what is going on with the marker. I have played Bad Company, and I will say that yes, they are incredibly accurate with those Spyders. Why? Because they understand what is going on with their markers, they have a very consistent source of air, a very tight paint to barrel match, and a marker locked onto them very tightly to reduce kick. Thank ya, I know I sound dumb but I just speak from experience.

[Smoke]

Well, when it gets down to the nitty gritty, all that matters is who puts a round on who the quickest. Nuff said. Your marker can shoot 1,000 yards, but it won't matter if I can pop out and paint you up before you can pull that trigger.

(General statement)

[Marek]

Re: Re: Re: Man ... gotta love this continued arguement ....

Originally posted by mr_mich
On a more serious note, I've been mixed up on this issue ever since I've been told that consistency/paint to barrel match are the only factors in accuracy.
.................................................. .....
But I seriously think that if you could put a freak set and a Stabilizer on a Spyder and have it shoot as accurately as a matrix, you'd see all the upper-end recballers playing with E-framed, beefed up spyders.

I am in the same boat too. I have been thinking about this, and would love an answer as well.

[No sKiLLz]

Re: Re: Re: Man ... gotta love this continued arguement ....

Originally posted by mr_mich
Now, I'm not saying that it's all BS. But I seriously think that if you could put a freak set and a Stabilizer on a Spyder and have it shoot as accurately as a matrix, you'd see all the upper-end recballers playing with E-framed, beefed up spyders.

And as for the Matrix, the person saying it shoots closest to an Autococker, I find that statement quite wrong. Most high end markers have lack of kick or blowback, so most high-end markers shoot "like a cocker". The Matrix just initially has almost no blowback because it has no bolt

Pick a color.



I think you meant hammer and sear since the Matrix is fully pneumatic.

Buuuuuuut...I see no one is listening to me about the real reason some markers are more accurate than others, so I will post a picture of MY gnomes to prove to you that the Matrix is the best.


Here's The One gnome...


Sexy Gnome...



Gnome group photo...



As you can see, the Matrix line of markers is an equal opportunity employer (notice token African American gnome) and follows all rules of affirmative action programs.

[Marek]

Wow, that was a great joke. Ive never heard of someone making fun of Timmys by calling them Spyders before. So original.

[ScatterPlot]

I really do love how people think the laws of physics and fluid dynamics dont exist in their sphere of influence.

In an open bolt marker, the Gnomes get more sun, hence they have a tendancy to frolick and lay out tanning rather than guiding the paint out of the marker, whilst in a closed bolt marker there is nothing to distract the gnomes because they are enclosed in the chamber and so they focus solely on proper and quality paint handling.

The problem here is that the gnomes can warp physics more when they don't have a tan. Simple as that.

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

hahah classic. I love arguing with peopel aboot this. It never ends. And it's always the same, "I've seen it so there". Give me a break.

Now, I'm not saying that it's all BS. But I seriously think that if you could put a freak set and a Stabilizer on a Spyder and have it shoot as accurately as a matrix, you'd see all the upper-end recballers playing with E-framed, beefed up spyders.

It's because of all the hype that's built up from arguments like this that it doesn't happen. I actually have a spyder i've been working on that i'm gonna rock some people with. I've shot if somewhat and it shoots pretty good. I just have to work on some bugs in it and i'll be sportin it. Kinda looks like a timmy though.