03 shocker :(

[No sKiLLz]

Fudge. The hosting website is down.

Check this out. The first 5 seconds of the new DyeMatrix website...

http://www.dyematrix.com/

[Dave_Z]

Well lets think about it for a second. The new shocker bolt is extremely light. Probably at least half to 2/3 lighter than the matrix bolt. So the amount of kinetic energy that the bolt has when cycling is considerably less, therefore causing less kick. Even with a paintball there will be less kick because they are both being shot out of the barrel at the same speed.

Even if you doubt my explanation, know that the only reason I say it has less kick is because I shot the two guns right after one another and noticed more kick than the shocker. Until you shoot both back to back don't say that I am wrong. Because then it will be you that is in denial.

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by Dave_Z
Well lets think about it for a second. The new shocker bolt is extremely light. Probably at least half to 2/3 lighter than the matrix bolt. So the amount of kinetic energy that the bolt has when cycling is considerably less, therefore causing less kick. Even with a paintball there will be less kick because they are both being shot out of the barrel at the same speed.

Even if you doubt my explanation, know that the only reason I say it has less kick is because I shot the two guns right after one another and noticed more kick than the shocker. Until you shoot both back to back don't say that I am wrong. Because then it will be you that is in denial.

So by that logic, why doesn't an Intimidator kick less than a Matrix? Or a DYE Cocker? Or any marker that comes with a delrin bolt? That Matrix you shot was improperly tuned, so to say the '03 Shocker kicks less than a Matrix is absolutely false. To say the '03 Shocker kicks less than the Matrix YOU shot would be a more accurate statement. I'm tired of people making false generalized statements about good markers because they don't have a clue how they work. I gave you three reasons why the Matrix kicks less, and you come back with one. So you think having a delrin negates all the other factors?

And your assumption about being the same with paint isn't true either. That's when the weight and length of the marker become a bigger factor with stabililty and balance (Matrix).

If you think the bolts greater inertia is the decisive factor in kick, Evolve makes a delrin for the Matrix. Making your final output pressure below 80 PSI is a much more decisive factor, and that is something you can't do without an LPR (i.e. no dice for the Shocker). Not to mention, because the Shocker cannot accommodate an LPR, it will never be as quiet, or as soft on paint as a (properly tuned) Matrix. But don't let me spoil your fun.

[nastymag]

wait did some one say that the o3's got a 6-7 pods and hopper off a 68/45 ?


i got 6 pods and a rev on 68/45 on my old V sport shocker

i thought they where suppose to fix the whole air consumption thing ....

[Dave_Z]

Originally posted by No sKiLLz


So by that logic, why doesn't an Intimidator kick less than a Matrix? Or a DYE Cocker? Or any marker that comes with a delrin bolt? That Matrix you shot was improperly tuned, so to say the '03 Shocker kicks less than a Matrix is absolutely false. To say the '03 Shocker kicks less than the Matrix YOU shot would be a more accurate statement. I'm tired of people making false generalized statements about good markers because they don't have a clue how they work. I gave you three reasons why the Matrix kicks less, and you come back with one. So you think having a delrin negates all the other factors?

Well since you know so much about how paintball guns work, then you know that the matrix and shocker have no ram/springs like most other paintball guns. These items obviously are connected to the bolt and carry inertia with them since they move at the same speed as the bolt. Therefore causing more kick than a matrix or shocker since the whole moving assembly weighs considerably more than a matrix or shocker bolt. You have to look at the whole assembly to consider how much recoil it will create.

Now with the martrix and shocker the bolt is the only moving part and the only factors in kick is how much the bolts weigh and how fast they move. Also the paintball will add kick but since they both shoot paint we can ignore it since the kick caused by the paint should be equal at the smae velocity. I don't know how fast each bolt moves but since they fire at about the same bps then I bet the speed of the bolt is pretty close. So if the shocker bolt is lighter than the matrix bolt then it will cause less kick.

Having a low cycling pressure bolt means nothing in terms of kick since the bolt must retain the same speed or else it will shoot slower and who would want that? I agree that a matrix with a well-tuned trinity will be easier on paint than the shocker.

It may be that the matrix I shot was "out of tune" but I highly doubt it since the trinity was set right. I will try to find some more matrixes around and see who is right. As for the evolve bolt kit, then I would bet you would not be able to tell the difference in kick at all. It looks like a very nice bolt kit and honestly I don't understand why there hasn't been a delrin bolt for the matrix sooner.

[demonguy8]

I managed to get my grubby paws on a 2k3 shocker this past week while at work (pbgear) and must say while i HAVENOT had a chance to test shoot it yet, this is one of the most comfortable, SMALLLEST (pictures dont do its small sizedness justice), and lightest markers Ive ever held..
Im reminded of the first time I ever picked up an Angel LCD and just knew the thing felt awsome.

Now assuming I like its consistancy and how much/little kick its got when I get a chance to shoot one, my next marker choice is gonna be set in stone..

PS: pbgear has at least 3 ultimate packages in stock at the moment (I believe theyre all RED but dont quote me), I also just personally stocked 5 smoke halobs(there where 2 already sitting there for a total of 7) and 6 black Halo bs, and ~6red halo bs (altho one is SOO MINE ). Not to mention 3 blue ULE bodies and 2 BLACK ule Bodies.. ENJOY!!!

[No sKiLLz]

Do NOT take this as flaming. Everything I am about to say is to educate, not to berate.

Originally posted by Dave_Z


Well since you know so much about how paintball guns work, then you know that the matrix and shocker have no ram/springs like most other paintball guns.

***The term is "fully pneumatic"***

These items obviously are connected to the bolt and carry inertia with them since they move at the same speed as the bolt. Therefore causing more kick than a matrix or shocker since the whole moving assembly weighs considerably more than a matrix or shocker bolt. You have to look at the whole assembly to consider how much recoil it will create.

***Not neccesarily true. This depends on the bolt/kit in the marker. Intimidator, for example, has lightweight rams available, coupled with the delrin bolt, can be similar in weight to that of the Matrix, not to mention the balance of the movement in relation to the point where you maintain stability. My point was delrin is not the be all and end all of reducing kick.***

Now with the martrix and shocker the bolt is the only moving part and the only factors in kick is how much the bolts weigh and how fast they move. Also the paintball will add kick but since they both shoot paint we can ignore it since the kick caused by the paint should be equal at the smae velocity. I don't know how fast each bolt moves but since they fire at about the same bps then I bet the speed of the bolt is pretty close. So if the shocker bolt is lighter than the matrix bolt then it will cause less kick.

Having a low cycling pressure bolt means nothing in terms of kick since the bolt must retain the same speed or else it will shoot slower and who would want that? I agree that a matrix with a well-tuned trinity will be easier on paint than the shocker.

***Don't take this personally, but this is not true. Paint is propelled out of the Matrix and Shocker by the force of the pressurized air, not by the movement of the bolt. If it were all up to the speed of the bolt impacting the paintball, an LPR would be useless and we would never be able to shoot brittle paint.***


It may be that the matrix I shot was "out of tune" but I highly doubt it since the trinity was set right.

***The only way to tell it is set right is to have the marker cycle cleanly, and, without kicking or making a sound, shoot super brittle paint at 300 fps without exploding the ball down your barrel.***

I will try to find some more matrixes around and see who is right.

***Good for you. I applaud this type of attitude.***

As for the evolve bolt kit, then I would bet you would not be able to tell the difference in kick at all. It looks like a very nice bolt kit and honestly I don't understand why there hasn't been a delrin bolt for the matrix sooner.

Understand, the LPR does a LOT for your marker, and I think it was a mistake on the part of Smart Parts to not leave room for one on the Shocker. They did however, build one into the Nerve.

[jinxed]

Originally posted by nastymag

i thought they where suppose to fix the whole air consumption thing ....

Poor effeciency is a problem with the spooler design.
To be most effecient, you need a pressure spike shaped like an upside-down "U", but spooles tend to make a "V" producing alot of wasted pressure. They can't open and close a valve as fast as an forced hammer can.

Nick

[Dave_Z]

No sKiLLz- I guess I see your point. I still disagree on a few of your points, but I agree that SP screwed up by not putting a lpr on the shocker. They sacrificed the lpr and made it tiny instead. Now if they would hurry up and come out with the eye then it won't be that big of a problem. I'll try and find some matrixes to compare to my shocker this weekend.

[Ov3rmind]

Originally posted by jinxed


Poor effeciency is a problem with the spooler design.
To be most effecient, you need a pressure spike shaped like an upside-down "U", but spooles tend to make a "V" producing alot of wasted pressure. They can't open and close a valve as fast as an forced hammer can.

Nick

Well, Matrixes are some of the most efficient guns you can buy now (FF and Evolve Bolt Kits), so I still see it as a fixable problem with the Shocker.

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by Dave_Z
No sKiLLz- I guess I see your point. I still disagree on a few of your points, but I agree that SP screwed up by not putting a lpr on the shocker. They sacrificed the lpr and made it tiny instead. Now if they would hurry up and come out with the eye then it won't be that big of a problem. I'll try and find some matrixes to compare to my shocker this weekend.

I appreciate you being open minded. I truly wish more people would take the time to figure out the Matrix, because a properly set up one is simply unbeatable.