MAX ROF setting on EMAG 2.4 board = INCORRECT!

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by cphilip


I know there are set points on the Morlock that we at this point cannot set on the Emag board. So I suspect that the answer is yes it can be made to shoot faster between balls. In fact I am certain of it. So any dwell can be adjusted with that board.

Hi cphilip,

Hmmm... I just may have to pick up a Morlock board one of these days... Muhahahaha

Originally posted by cphilip


But some of the inherent set points on the Emag board are in the fixed software and designed to delay to make sure of sear lock up and such things as that. More programed for durability and security than they are for performance "on the edge" so to speak. Tom has always leaned to the safe and reliable side on all his designs. And that is true of the software end of it too. Tom has taken the road that he wants his guns to shoot reliably first and last long next. And let the other chips fall were they may on the others.

That's strange...

If the minimum delay time for a MAX ROF of 8 = only 125 ms, then why would there be any concern for reliability pragrammed into the board at this slow speed?

Since the EMAG is rated to handle at least 16-20 bps (minimum delay times of 62 ms and 50 ms respectively), surely there should not be any problems with sear lock-up at 125 ms...

Originally posted by Kaiser Bob


Jack if you try to get a rhythm of exactly 8cps instead of going all out, you will notice you will go faster because you arent getting the majority of your shots ignored by the board. I discovered this a long time ago when I had my first mag. Im expecting 3.0 covers this issue as well.

Hey KB, what's up... nice vids you put up in the other thread...

Ok.

I just recorded about a 1 minute sound clip of me pulling the trigger with the MAX ROF set to 8.

I varried the speed and cadence as you suggested.

I raked it fast, med and slow.

I walked it fast, med, and slow.

I pulled it fast, med and slow.

I registered approx. 400 shots including minor pauses for hand position changes.

When analyzing these 400 shots, I studied the minimum time interval between the peaks of the sound signature.

If the MAX ROF were truely set to 8 cps, then the minimum time interval should be 125 ms.

You would expect that after pulling 400 times with various rates, I should be able to find an interval somewhere close to 125, right?

Nope.

The smallest interval recorded in this test was 137 ms.

The MAJORITY of the "smallest" intervals recorded are 137 ms to 150 ms.

Since this same pattern of inconsistancy exists for ALL other MAX ROF settings at varried pulling speeds, I can confidently conclude that the problem is NOT whether I am pulling the trigger too fast or too slow.

Please, someone else do this same test so they can also verify, validate and substantiate my results and conclusions.

[cphilip]

I don't think its measurable exactly "WHEN" you pulled that trigger. Thats an unkown in the process. And a variable that is key to the situation.

Yes it can lock up that quick but thats a whole nother discussion. I prolly shouldn't have even gone off into that. Its not realy germain to the central discussion.

Perhaps your magic smoke has leaked?

[Schnitzel]

Please, someone else do this same test so they can also verify, validate and substantiate my results and conclusions.

i was going to say, that your tests may apply only to your gun/trigger. and i was going to further it by adding that there's no way that you make such a broad assumption about all emags based on your own tests. obviously you knew that, and asking for others to perform the same test was right on.

unfortunately, i dont have the equipment to do the tests

[FutureMagOwner]

what it is is you have to pull consistantly over and over every 8 times per second or whatever you aim for. thats probably why my emag goes so slow when i walk it yet when i sorta rake/fan it i get it faster because its more even.

[Miscue]

It is virtually impossible to hit the max ROF setting. If you set it to 8bps, and want to hit it at 8bps... you have shoot at EXACTLY 0.125s intervals. 7.9x bps is as close as you can get over some duration... and as J&C observed, you'll usually get much less.

The fix for this is: Raising the bps cap and/or shot buffering. I personally think raising the cap is a more elegant solution.

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by Miscue


The fix for this is: Raising the bps cap and/or shot buffering. I personally think raising the cap is a more elegant solution.

I think AGD needs to shoehorn a few extra elves into the gun.

[cphilip]

Yea! They calling that 3.0. For the 0.6 more Elves factor!

[Jack & Coke]

Actually if you think in terms of relating MAX ROF to SMALLEST ALLOWED INTERVAL TIME, then you will see the problem more clearly.

At ROF set to 8, you can see from the data that the smallest interval I was able to achieve was around 135 ms.

I'm trying to get as close to 125 ms, right?

Well according to the test where the ROF was set at 10, I was consistanly hitting 125 ms.

So you see, the problem of me not reaching 8 bps is not governed by how well I time the trigger while raking or walking.

The limitation (flaw) is with the electronics (software) not allowing me to approach the set Max rate.

[Wynken]

But at 10bps, your window is 100ms, right? So hitting 125ms consistantly would be wrong the wrong time.

Atleast, that's how I see it.

*edit*

It would seem to me that if you're doing 125ms and the window is 100ms you'd get a 25% loss on the shots. The table shows 20%. That's pretty close.


*edit again*

I misunderstood what you were doing, The previous comments might not make sense.

Has anyone ever tried hooking up a pulse generator to the HES input, that would be the best way to go. I might have to try that when I get back to school.

[nastymag]

this isnt limited to Emags by the way. most guns with ROF caps will do this. for example .. i know my revy will not feed higher then say 12pbs, so i set my ROF on my angel to 14. and that way when i am ripping i wont chop. when ROF set at 14 .. i never really get much abouve 11 bps.

im sure a simple raise of the ROF cap will probably help this issue. personally i like when guns have adjustable ROF.

[Skoad]

i'll give this a whirl when i get back to school jack, maybe this is why its hard to walk :P

[Koosh]

Hey J&C, does your timmy have programmable ROF? Why don't you try doing the same test with that too?

[Xyxyll]

Lots of writing... couldn't read through it all. But I have an idea why your results seem messed up. You are raking the trigger faster than the cap (obviously). So what happens when you hit the cap is the board cancels out shots inbetween 8cps or 10cps (whatever it is set at). It's hard to explain.

[FalconGuy016]

Originally posted by TheFlamingKoosh
Hey J&C, does your timmy have programmable ROF? Why don't you try doing the same test with that too?

YeS!

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by Xyxyll


Lots of writing... couldn't read through it all.

Why do people feel the need the jump in and POST when they couldn't even READ the whole thread?

Comments similar to yours have been asked and explained already.

Read. Think. THEN Post.... It's really not that long of a thread...