MAX ROF setting on EMAG 2.4 board = INCORRECT!

[nerobro]

There's no need to retest. As KB said. This is what happens when you don't have shot buffering. If you put me on a dragun frame set for 10bps, I won't do more than 8 or so. MY timing would have to produce a pull every 100ms to get that. If I make one pull less than 100ms I will no longer get that shot.

What your'e describing is old news. You're also making a big adoo over somthing that's well known. If you dont' have shot queing you can NOT hit the rof the board is set for without a machine.

The flaw isn't in software. It's in your hand. What you're asking for a shot que. And that is coming with the 3.0 software.

Oh yea, one more thing. If your'e minimum interval was 137ms. You're only 12ms late for the pull. 12ms is VERY VERY VERY short. And it's actually quite good for what you're describing. There's an easy solution. Set the rof higher.

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by nerobro
There's no need to retest. As KB said. This is what happens when you don't have shot buffering. If you put me on a dragun frame set for 10bps, I won't do more than 8 or so. MY timing would have to produce a pull every 100ms to get that. If I make one pull less than 100ms I will no longer get that shot.

What your'e describing is old news. You're also making a big adoo over somthing that's well known. If you dont' have shot queing you can NOT hit the rof the board is set for without a machine.

The flaw isn't in software. It's in your hand. What you're asking for a shot que. And that is coming with the 3.0 software.

Oh yea, one more thing. If your'e minimum interval was 137ms. You're only 12ms late for the pull. 12ms is VERY VERY VERY short. And it's actually quite good for what you're describing. There's an easy solution. Set the rof higher.

nerobro,

I'm not late on the pull... just look at all the other tests at different ROF setting. If i'm able to pull a 125 ms on the ROF setting = 10 then why won't the ROF = 8 register it?

Maybe it's old news for you, but new news to me.

Again... it's the same pattern for all settings.

Try it yourself if you don't believe me.

If set my gun a ROF = 8, should I not be able to have a minimum shot to shot interval of 125 ms?

...and the arguement that I'm not pulling the trigger at the right time is naive considering the results shown in the other ROF test tables.

[Skoad]

jack i think they are right on the whole thing....if i set my emag to 8 bps, then pull as fast as i can...i only get around 6 bps.

but if i set it on 8 then i pull it rather slow i can get very close to 8 a second.

[Skoad]

here is a little quick sound deal i did.

[Jack & Coke]

I redid the ROF test and shot "slower" and I had the same results as the first test.

I could not find a time interval of 125 ms or even close to it.

Skoad.. could you measure the distance between the peaks for me? Show the shortest interval.

[Jack & Coke]

I look at your graph in photoshop and calculated the time interval for shots 5 and 6 to be EXACTLY 125 ms.

Excellent!

I will keep trying to shoot at different speeds in hit the timing "just right". So far no dice... which is really confussing.

Would you mind posting the sound clip?

[Jack & Coke]

ok...

I've just recorded another test at ROF = 8

Again... I get the same results!

I pulled the trigger at various speeds.

After a little over 300+ trigger pulls, the smallest time interval I could find was 135 ms!

I have no idea of how Skoad got 125 ms.

Did you pull the trigger? Walk it? Rake it?

Was is semi-auto only? or burst mode?

Was it an Emag?

2.4 board?

Recording of only the noid?

I'm very curious why I'm unable to hit 125 ms on ROF 8 during my tests...

I'd really like to know if there's an error in my testing procedure, recroding methods, analyzing methods...

Can anyone else help us out?

TESTING PROCEDURE:

1. Set EMAG ROF to 8
2. Remove the left grip panel.
3. Place a computer mic next to the noid.
4. Hit recrod on your sound editing program.
5. Pull the trigger at various speeds via normal pull, walking, and raking... (NO air, just the noid clicking)
6. Use a wav editor to analyze the wac pattern of the sound file you just recorded.
7. Take a screenshot of the smallest recorded interval from shot-to-shot.
8. post here and let us know what you found.

If you'd like, repeat this test for ROF 10, ROF 12, ... ROF 20.

Thanks.

[nerobro]

HE has better hands than you jack. That's it. :-) Welcome to the world of electronics.

Again, this is what shot queing fixes.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

well...I think the question is why it took till 3.0 to add the queuing...oh well...

[Jack & Coke]

How do you think shot queing should work?

Since there are probably different ways to implement a queue, how should it be programmed?

In the case of ROF = 8, should if hold on to a shot and then fire it a 125 ms? If I rake the trigger at greater than 8 cps, should we see a uniform stream of paint at perfect intervals of 125 ms?

Jsut currious...

[DiRTyBuNNy]

if it was my opinion...I would say the later...that if you pull faster than 8bps you should see a uniform 8pbs stream of paint..but that's my opinion..

[AGD]

I go away for the weekend and the research goes wild....

It could be that the timing is off in semi mode. We never actually tested it we just timed it in full auto mode and assumend it was the same for semi.

In any case all this will be water under the bridge with 3.0. The new software is working and in testing. The latest version allows for trigger pulls INSIDE the solenoid pull window and should allow for max walking speed. I haven't shot it myself yet so I dont know how well it works yet. I will let you know this week.

AGD

[nerobro]

shot ques get really funny once you start getting into how they really work.

for instance, the bob long boards in the intimidator will hold onto a trigger pull event for 7 tenths of a seccond. that's AGES.

for example. We'll use 10bps as an easy number to play with. if we have a shot que, with a maximum buffer of one shot. we'd need it to last AT LEAST 1/10 of a seccond to ensure smooth fireing at 10bps, with any input greater than 10.

But lets get to reality. Even with a 10bps setup, and inputs at say.. 11bps. the inputs won't be evenly spaced. So things can quickly run amuck. Without a multi shot que, or a long que duration, you may still see the "lower than set" rof.

For example. We have a 100ms long, 1 shot que. If you pull one shot at time 0, a seccond shot a 90ms, another at 110ms, the que would have fired that shot for you at 0, 100, and then at 200ms. But if you managed to get any more than 100ms out of step, the shot would be delayed. These are all the same issues you see with the current setup too ;-) jsut you'd have 100ms of leniance.

Then again, there's probally a dozen ways to do a que. Look at the shocker turbos, the WAS boards, the ANGEL boards. they all do them differently.

Then again, the point in question in this thread has been answered. :-) I'd considder the subject dead. further discussion into shot queing is just asking to get into corperate secrets ;-)

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by AGD
I go away for the weekend and the research goes wild....

It could be that the timing is off in semi mode. We never actually tested it we just timed it in full auto mode and assumend it was the same for semi.

In any case all this will be water under the bridge with 3.0. The new software is working and in testing. The latest version allows for trigger pulls INSIDE the solenoid pull window and should allow for max walking speed. I haven't shot it myself yet so I dont know how well it works yet. I will let you know this week.

AGD

Thanks Tom!

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by AGD
I go away for the weekend and the research goes wild....

It could be that the timing is off in semi mode. We never actually tested it we just timed it in full auto mode and assumend it was the same for semi.

In any case all this will be water under the bridge with 3.0. The new software is working and in testing. The latest version allows for trigger pulls INSIDE the solenoid pull window and should allow for max walking speed. I haven't shot it myself yet so I dont know how well it works yet. I will let you know this week.

AGD

Will 3.0 ship in the current batch of XMAGS?

(and when will that be? )

Jay.