Looks like ICD gave in on the Smart Parts suit

[PyRo]

Re: Re: .

Originally posted by xen_100

bottomline is, it is the beginning of ht eend for ICD. they make a nice product, but if SP holds thier leash, they will never make anything good again, why would SP "let" them make a good competting product.

This is why.
Profit: The return received on a business undertaking after all operating expenses have been met.
When a paintball gun is sold say for $1000, the company did not just make $1000. Alot of money went into having the individuale parts made, paying people to work at the place, utilities, advratising etc. I would guess, that about $40-100 per marker sold on average is actually profit.
Now is SP's $75 royaly fee paying competitor pays them there $75 they just made a $75 profit (minus some tax).
Now does SP prefer to make $50 selling there gun, or $75 for doing nothing?
This is why I don't think SP will keep anyone on a "leash" as long as they get there cut.

[wobbles82]

What does TK have to say about all this I wonder? Its ridiculous to me how all of this happened....I mean...SP sees the sport growing and goes ahead and does this, weren't the reasons of not taking people to courts is so paintball could grow and be shared among everyone?

[Muzikman]

Originally posted by wobbles82
What does TK have to say about all this I wonder? Its ridiculous to me how all of this happened....I mean...SP sees the sport growing and goes ahead and does this, weren't the reasons of not taking people to courts is so paintball could grow and be shared among everyone?

Tom doesn't have much to say about it (at least to us), but I can tell you he is stressed out over it.

[Xyxyll]

I posted this over at PBNation and I think it is something to consider.

Originally posted by pugdog10
(this is not PBN so don't bring it here - cphilip) smartparts if i were ICD id go for the chance of losing in court which is slim to none.

and wtf SP if you cant make money then that means MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS POS IMPULSES THAT WEIGH 10lbs.

If it is true that they simply backed out before the courts could tell them they lost, then I think they did the right thing. Sure, I don't like seeing ICD get hurt like this, but if the above is true, they are taking a hit for the industry. This would mean that there IS NOT a court precident that allows SP to automatically win in all other cases. SP has to win the case to set precident. ICD is a fairly small company, and would not have had the funds to afford to lose the case, and they would not have the funds to supply the BEST (I'm sure they could have done great, but I'm talkin about the best possible) defense against SP. Next in line is most likely a company with more $$$. If SP doesn't win cases and targets BE or KingmanUSA, I think it will be a true fight.

[mag-hatter]

i never thought i'd see the day when the paintball industry resembled a hardcore gay porno.....everyone is just bendin over and no one is fighting back! this is truely sad. agd......lay down some whoopass. im sure SP has infringed a warrenty you guys have put out....right?

[~WarpedRT#2~]

Can someone who is familiar with patents explain this to me? If SP attacks AGD, cant AGD simply put a patent on the things they have created? They brought compressed air to paintball, powerfeeds, and all sorts of stuff. And why didn't DYE just stand up to them, and patent their bolt design(matrix), and counter sue? And I also heard about some other guy owning a patent prior to SP about electronics on a paintball gun. Why cant we fight back the same way they are? Why cant AGD use patents to scare them into submission?

Maybe we are looking in the wrong places for the answers. Maybe we need to look into existing patents, and see what is patented, and if SP is in violation of any of those. I know it's like asking for a fight, but still you have to protect yourself anyway you can. Maybe if someon can stumble through some older patents on like regulators, gauges, barrel stuff, whatever... Just find something to use against them.

[Jerhew]

well thats the thing...
the US navy has a patent from like the '70's that sp would be infringing on if this goes through...
atleast thats how i understand it...
if that is at all true, i dont even see why this has gone this far

[askman]

once idea becomes public knowledge, you have one year in US to file a patent, and none is europe. Patent must be filed before being released to public in most cases to be sure of protection. What many do, is to file, but not enforce it. This keeps some S O B like SP from filing someone else's idea and profit from it. the problem is that it cost quite a bit of money to file.

[kevdupuis]

I don't like this one bit. Though, the prior litigation that found ICD in violation of SP patents sounds like it came from the judges ruling that allowed SP to file suit against other companies.

[DjGruv]

SP rules

Its not smartparts fault everyone was to STUPID to realize they were infringing on a patent. Companys are around for one reason. TO MAKE MONEY! Some of you seem to forget that. They aren't the only company to ever sue because someone stole there idea.

[spantol]

Re: SP rules

Wow. You've so eloquently and succinctly captured every subtle nuance of this case. My hat is off to you, sir.

Originally posted by DjGruv
Its not smartparts fault everyone was to STUPID to realize they were infringing on a patent. Companys are around for one reason. TO MAKE MONEY! Some of you seem to forget that. They aren't the only company to ever sue because someone stole there idea.

[Tyger]

Ok, so what do you all propose to do? If they're going after everyone who makes an e-gun, what do you propose to do here?

Boycott SP? Ok, so what happens when they can live off of licencing agreements? They could, in theory,CLOSE SP and live off the percentage from each gun other people make. Think Microsoft.

Boycott e-guns? Well, I like the E-mag. It's not fair to AGD, or ICD, or in fact any other manufacturer to punich them for making a superior product.

Punch the Gardners in the nose? Well, beyond the instant gratification, there's no real long-term bennefit to doing that.

Stop supporting the peripherals? Well, that's a lot of turf. We'd have to cumulatively avoid buying products and supporting activities that could fund SP / Gardners. That includes X-Ball, Draxxus, V-force, Halos, Renegade, Dye, NPS... and probably a few more companies.

We cold flood thier fax machines and e-mails with hate mail. Oh, wait, we already are.

We express our rage, fine. But what do you want to do with it? Best we can do is support companies that we wish to, and not support companies we don't. As a consumer, that's the option we have. They'll do everythign they feel they can.

Now we could try to organise a grassroots campaign to somehow quash their patent. Hire a patent attorney to blow it apart at the seams, and contest it in a court. I don't know if this is even possible, but let's be realistic here. What else can we do other than hurl obseneties on the 'net about a company that, obviously, could care less wha the paintball public desires?

Keep in mind, The "All Americans" have been booed off the field at Knoxville and Skyball t my own witnessing. At Skyball an All American (Bill Gardner, I think) THREW A BUNKER post-game and threw a hissy about a game against Aftershock that was controversial, but the calls were made on the field and the chips fell foul of the All A's.

They got the game replayed, and the All A's won that year's Skyball pro division. They got booed off the field that game, and in the finals, and the players taunted the crowd, begging for more hate. You're talking about a person / persons who look at the bottom line of "WE WIN." They don't care if everyone hates them, as long as they WIN.

-Tyger

[spantol]

Tapper's links are very interesting, but they seem to indicate that a re-examination is only an option when the "infringer" is the target of litigation. Did ICD attempt this?

[OfficerGoat]

Ladies and gentlemen.... business is war. Yes this is a crappy thing that is going on, however I personaly feel that some of the other paintball orginazations are just as much to blame as the Gardners themselfs. A lot of what has been going on in the industry has been done upon gentlmens agreements.... the problem here being is that at some point ether someone is going to get greedy or someone is going to piss someone else off.. .and bam... you have all sorts of crazy stuff flying.. like patent infringements etc. If you invented HPA for Paintball .. then pattent it...make everyone sign some sort of agreement that they can licence it provided they dont to yada yada and yada. Now you have a stick over SP... sure they want to sue ICD for whatever electro.. but they know that if they do that that they are going to end up paying royaltys on all the maxflos that they sell... Yes a VERY simplified example, but I think you see my point.

The paintball industry as a whole is about to change I think... now if this is a good thing or a bad thing I dono... but some folks are going to learn the hard way that you ALWAYS need to CYA.... Cover your assets.

So far as the ICD settlememnt... there is only one reason that they settled..... they knew they were going to loose. I never mentioned this prior to now, however I spoke with an Atourney that I was doing some consult work for and we had a pretty lengthy convorsation about this whole issue and his opinion at the time was that ether ICD would loose or settle. His opinion was that precident was that broad sweeping pattents like this one are infact valid within the courts eyes.

The thing to do now is sit back and watch the crap hit the fan.... see where it splatters and go from there. I think Tom has been very wise to limit his investment in X-Mag production. It would really suck to blow a huge amount of money just to see SP steal it from you.

Now the question is going to be... are they going to be reasonable about the licencing... or are we going to have to pay out the nose.... etherway I have a feeling when my Timmy gets here.. its staying here for a long time.

[Brett23]

Ok, now I know this is a little off current subject here, but to everyone who is saying that AGD would whoop SP, you are dead wrong. Agd does not have the rescourses to fight a company like Smart parts. They would be crushed just like ICD was. Unless the rest of the PB companys out there banded together and pulled something relevent out of their hinnies everyone out there will be paying SP in the end. Another thing is with companies like DYE and NPS, they did the smart thing by giving in without a fight. They make and ship so many other products (other then guns) that the pay off cost to SP can de destributed among those items as well. Dye and NPS lose little or almost nothing because of this pantent crap. ( least thats what I'm seeing). WDP is in for a hurt . AGD and WGP not so much because they still have the manual gun lines, but agd is so small it would be buriued otherwise, and may still be. The sadest thing about it all is before the shocker the ALL Americans sported 'Mags.
Good looking out Billy and Adam