Homemade Electric Cocker

**xen_100** · 10-24-2003, 01:31 PM

I think that hardest thing you are going to come up against is the spyder frame. it will not fit easily and getting it to trip the sear will be tough. they are not even remotely in the same place.

I would suggest using a CF hyperframe (cause the mounting is the same) but then you may as well buy an e-frame for it.

after you spend $100 on the spyder frame and $100 on the mac valve plus all your "ghetto" rigging and your time. you may find it is just easier and cheaper to buy an e-frame designed to work. also, dont forget, you are going to have to add a timing circuit to the spyder frame. the spyder frame will ONLY trip the sear. it iwll not have a delay biult in for open time and closed time for the bolt. a custom cirsuit would work here (or a morlock board) but there again you are looking at $100-150 for that customization.

**-=Squid=-** · 10-24-2003, 01:33 PM

Mhmm...timing was a concern from the start... I guess we could just put the 4-way on there, and replace a manual 3-way with an electric mac valve. Machine work wont cost us anything, and I already have a mac valve from an old broken rain maker, as can I get an electric spyder frame for about 20 bucks. I wouldnt bother doing this if I didnt already have most of the stuff to do it with. Timing...well crap, im not sure about that. The reason for this is a project, not because I want an electro cocker.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, why wouldnt the spyder frame work as is? All it NEEDs to do is trip a sear. When you pull a cocker trigger, it just trips the sear and falls back into place while the gun does the rest...I guess I dont understand that part.

**xen_100** · 10-24-2003, 02:15 PM

ok, if you already have most ofthe parts, then money is not the issue.

you will have to do some measuring to see of the spyder frame can even mount to the cocker body. if you can find a way to mount it so the sear is in the right place, it might work. you would also have to make sure that the sear was tall enough to catch the hammer, and that the noid has enough power to release it. if all those things are worked out, it will work.

as for the timing issues. that is a quick trip to radio shack for a dual 555 timer(I believe it is 556, plus you will need a few pots a various resistors and crap)) all you need to do to time it is this:

1) pull trigger (releases hammer)
2) wait for hammer to hit valve (if it started to cock immedaiately it wouldn't hit the valve at all)
3) actuate mac valve (to cock gun)
4) de-actuate mac valve (to push bolt forward)

what the exact values are I dont know. but you could tinker with it until you got it right. if you biult the circuit small enough you could fit it in the stock 9V batt location and then power the gun off the revy batts? (or a project box under the grip)

**WARPED1** · 10-24-2003, 02:57 PM

Go see Doc's site. He made his personal cocker to an electro with 'noid on the front.

GT · 10-24-2003, 03:30 PM

squid,
poke around on ebay. There are some folks that sell SMC 'noids all day for pretty cheap.

jb

**-=Squid=-** · 10-24-2003, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by WARPED1
Go see Doc's site. He made his personal cocker to an electro with 'noid on the front.

I did go there, but the picture didnt tell me much, other than hes got a vision eye, some crazy frame, and a skinner noid mounted on the front. If the spyder frame doesnt work, I can take the intellifeed revvy I have, and the mac valve, and wire that to a battery and microswitch inside the frame, so you manually trip the frame but everything else is electro. 1/2 electro cocker. I have till december, im giving this setup to my dad for christmas.

**-=Squid=-** · 10-24-2003, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by gtrsi
squid,
poke around on ebay. There are some folks that sell SMC 'noids all day for pretty cheap.

jb

Thanks a lot, my mac noid has a little leak anyways.

**-=Squid=-** · 10-24-2003, 03:37 PM

gtrsi - could you give me a link? I cant find any on there.

**Spartan X** · 10-24-2003, 03:59 PM

For timing, get a orlock board...BUY then you could afford a hyperframe after the total cost.

**-=Squid=-** · 10-24-2003, 04:05 PM

ok guys, say I scratch the spyder frame and just use a mac valve, I would no long need a board correct? Just the mac valve would act as a three way, assuming I wired it to a microswitch or something, and mounted the switch behind the trigger plate, and just put it in the right spot so it didnt get tripped until the right moment? I dont wanna have to screw with timing issues or a board if I can bypass it, even if it is only a half electro.

**xen_100** · 10-24-2003, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by -=Squid=-
ok guys, say I scratch the spyder frame and just use a mac valve, I would no long need a board correct? Just the mac valve would act as a three way, assuming I wired it to a microswitch or something, and mounted the switch behind the trigger plate, and just put it in the right spot so it didnt get tripped until the right moment? I dont wanna have to screw with timing issues or a board if I can bypass it, even if it is only a half electro.

I am sure you could do that, and it would work.

and I dont want to be rude, but what would be the point??? your limiting factor to ROF on a cocker is the trigger. you have to pull it all the way, release all the way. the stroke is ALOT longer than even super crappy electro frames. so if you are going to use a normal trigger on a cocker and then put a microswitch to actuate an electro 4-way. you will gain nothing over a stock mech 4-way.

infact you will still have to put a timing circuit on the microswitch because you will be able to pull the trigger and let go of it ALOT faster than paint can feed and you will chop alot of paint.

on a totally mech cocker you have a small amount of play (hysteressis) in the 3-way that allows the bolt to be back long enough to feed correctly. on yours you will pull the trigger (then hit the microswitch) is will start to go back (this takes about 5-10 MS to happen) then you will let go of the trigger (instantly releasing the microswitch) and the bolt will go forward. (it is posible the ram wont even get far enough back to cock the gun before you let go) so you will need a delay timed in to allow the gun to cock correctly

**-=Squid=-** · 10-24-2003, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by xen_100

I am sure you could do that, and it would work.

and I dont want to be rude, but what would be the point??? your limiting factor to ROF on a cocker is the trigger. you have to pull it all the way, release all the way. the stroke is ALOT longer than even super crappy electro frames. so if you are going to use a normal trigger on a cocker and then put a microswitch to actuate an electro 4-way. you will gain nothing over a stock mech 4-way.

infact you will still have to put a timing circuit on the microswitch because you will be able to pull the trigger and let go of it ALOT faster than paint can feed and you will chop alot of paint.

on a totally mech cocker you have a small amount of play (hysteressis) in the 3-way that allows the bolt to be back long enough to feed correctly. on yours you will pull the trigger (then hit the microswitch) is will start to go back (this takes about 5-10 MS to happen) then you will let go of the trigger (instantly releasing the microswitch) and the bolt will go forward. (it is posible the ram wont even get far enough back to cock the gun before you let go) so you will need a delay timed in to allow the gun to cock correctly

Wait wait wait...first you say it will be ridiculously slow, then you say that it will be so fast paint cant feed? With an electric 4 way, you wont need to worry about short stroking for one. On top of that, you can put stops on the plate, drop the sear etc without need of retiming, or the 4 way not being able to get that short. You only need to pull ALL the way back, and let ALL the way forward because of the 4 way, not the sear. I think this would be a good thing.

EDIT: I reread what you said, and now understand where you are coming from. At this point, what I want to try will be under 15 dollars, so why not try it? I guess I will let everyone know how it goes, but please, dont stop with help and suggestions, its been helping greatly.

**xen_100** · 10-24-2003, 04:55 PM

well for $15, go ahead and try it. just be aware, you will run into timing issues. I am not saying they are not fixable. just that you have to consider them and understand how to get around em.

your micro switch idea might work if you put the microswtich in a place so that is gets switched "on" before the end of the backward trigger stroke and stays on for a little while on the forward stroke of the trigger (so it is not just getting turned on, then instantly off like it would if the back of the trigger plate were hitting it....although I am not sure there is room in the trigger frame for this. it would be tricky to get it mounted in just the right spot too.)

I still say you wont get any increase in poerformance doing it this way. but it is always fun to tinker. hell I biult a cocker out of a spyder

GT · 10-24-2003, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by -=Squid=-
gtrsi - could you give me a link? I cant find any on there.

Dam there were a bunch of these a few weeks ago. let me poke around a bit more.... http://search.ebay.com/ws/search/Sal...=888&catref=C1

Homemade Electric Cocker

Homemade Electric Cocker

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