The Tac-One and dealers

[bryceeden]

Originally posted by AGD
First of all how many dealers do you think we have? How many stock our guns? Not as many as you think. Most of our stuff sells through online places like PBgear and 888.

If you go look on the store our intelliframe sells for less than our MSRP on that product. That was a test to see how many dealers it would aggrivate. In almost a year only one dealer mentioned it.

How come no one abandoned Angels when they overnight dropped their price to 850? I remember PBgear selling off stock at super discounts from what they paid.

Once we get volume up then we can put in a dealer margin.

AGD

Well, I have to admit that I only have three mags on my walls, a Classic, a Mini, and an RTP. To date I have only sold one. I would like to sell more mags, but right now everyone wants cockers, and I think a cheap tac-one would definatly help fix this problem. My only consern is that the Tac-one sales will go too well befor dealers are put in the loop that it might be too late and I'll have another wall decoration that never goes anywhere.

Meph, I do the same thing, warrenty and service well beond what is nessasary, and people still want to save the extra $10. This isn't somuch a problem because I make $25 when their "cheaper" cocker needs timed, but it does create a problem with bringing in the newest and best gear.

[shartley]

Originally posted by bryceeden
Well, I have to admit that I only have three mags on my walls, a Classic, a Mini, and an RTP. To date I have only sold one. I would like to sell more mags, but right now everyone wants cockers, and I think a cheap tac-one would definatly help fix this problem. My only consern is that the Tac-one sales will go too well befor dealers are put in the loop that it might be too late and I'll have another wall decoration that never goes anywhere.

Meph, I do the same thing, warrenty and service well beond what is nessasary, and people still want to save the extra $10. This isn't somuch a problem because I make $25 when their "cheaper" cocker needs timed, but it does create a problem with bringing in the newest and best gear.

[bryceeden]

True, and in reality I don't know why I am posting this much, because as soon as it becomes dealer frendly or what ever happens I'll be getting a Tac-one or two. In reality as long as the low price on the net isn't a perminate thing this will do wonders for my mag sales. The only problem I see is if it isn't a temporary deal, and the extreamly low price is perminate. As a promation run some where around six months to a year this would do wonders for both AGD and its dealers because mags would become the "in" thing for scenarios and then when every one wants one the dealers can sell them for say $50-$60 more than the origonal internet price, then noone complains and it works out great for the dealers and AGD.

[Restola]

I don't see why AGD needs to worry about the brick-and-morter stores. Paintball is an internet sport. Word travels fast on the field and the net, regardless of whether or not the stores that carry mags even recommend them (I've found one guy who works part time at one store that recommends mags first).

If AGD is sick of getting outpriced and dealing with crap from companies that arent going to sell the product anyway, then go 100% online.

Worst case it stays as it is. Best case mags get super-popular and the stores come back begging to buy.

[CoolHand]

Sure, go 100% online. For the pittance that most companys give their dealers, its almost not worth the trouble.

Notice that I said ALMOST.

You stack up all those tiny margins, and you can make a payment, or buy some more stock, or do some R&D work and prototyping.

Now, you take that away, and it doesn't run us out of business, at least not right away. But it does tighten the belt, and force us into "either/or" situtions more often, which ultimately puts us in a position from which it is much easier to fail.

AGD is not the first company to do this to us, NPS (National Paintball) sells many things on 888.com for less than they will sell to me, even in big quantities. Smart Parts too, as well as KAPP, Shocktech, you name them.

From their point of view, it maximizes profits, and it appears to the consumer to save them money, but there is one thing they are forgeting.

You buy a marker, from anyone online, and if you have a problem with it, assuming they will stand behind it, you will be without it for at least a week, more likely two or three.

Advice, service, general assistance with anything PB related, repair, and the friendly atmosphere are just some of the things your local store brings to the table. Cut out all the dealerships, and that all goes away.

You may not know it now, but you WILL miss us when we are gone.

[bryceeden]

Very good point coolhand, I have on several occasions fixed markers that are well out of their warranty, I don't think many internet places do that. While this thread is getting off topic I would like to point out that myself I spend thousands of dollars, that I useually don't directly make back, to put on tournements and scenarios, and I spend more time talking to city counsels and the forest service than I do school work(yes, I am a senior in high school, no I didn't get held back or drop out, I just started my shop alittle early because the sport was dieing and no one else would.) If I didn't produce tourneys or scenarios no one out here would, and the sport wouldn't survive long. In the two years I have been doing buisness I have taken the sport from groups of five or six people going into the backwoods and playing to an organised(and televised) sport that even has a city sponsored leage that plays in stadiums, on the scenario side I have produces several good sized scenarios, and have a rec ball group of 30+people who use my shop as a means of communication to get more people to go play each week and play on fields that I have built with refs I provide at no cost to them because there are no official organised fields in this area. Before you decide to take the local shops out of the picture think about everything they do to grow the sport that the online store can't.
Back on the subject of the Tac-one, I trust AGD and I am sure they will come up with a plan to make this work for every one.

[hobbesTZ]

I just bought an Impulse, and now this comes out.


Drat.

[sharpshooter1286]

How about some pics?

[Lohman446]

Theres problems in the reasoning for needing a dealer to service a mag - don't take this as an insult.

When I first got my mag (my first paintball gun was a used smart mag which I purchased off e-bay) I had it repaired by Nuwave Paintball down in Battle Creek. Now John had to take every o-ring and replace it, rebuild the power tube - he charged me parts (sure he made some money there) and $5 labor - not nearly enough for his time and the expertise he shared with me in showing me how everything worked.

That being said, I have made it a point to get really really competent on fixing mags (at least I think so) - I carry several of all the "wear" items that come on a mag. I have fixed several mags on the field - likely spent about $40 on parts in a year, and never charged anyone for it. How many fields, with any mag support, do not have a player there that can and will take care of almost every issue that might arise on the field?

Mags are simple to repair, very few things can go wrong with them - a good instruction manual (bump the price enough to inclue a rebuild kit) and I dare say almost everyone could maintenance there own marker. Frankly, if I can manage to figure it out, most anyone out there should be able to as well, I am not on the top of the spectrum.

[CoolHand]

You have unwittingly made my point for me.

Were it not for the benevolent field owner / retailer, it would have taken you mcuh longer to be confident enough to repair your marker yourself.

This dude taught you out of the kindness in his heart, and in doing so, removed your need for him entirely.

Cutting his own throat? Possibly.

Advancing the game, one player at a time? Definitely.

[Lohman446]

I am trying to come up with the right answer to many of the concerns out there and need to flat out state that I cannot.

Lower priced Tac-One - the lower price will likely sell more of these, putting more mags out there. The cost of this lower price appears to be the dealers themselves.

Facts for the dealers - there is not a lot of money to be made on mag upgrades. A dealer can likely sell a new front block at some point to someone who buys a cocker, a new trigger system, something. The Tippmans the RT is almost an easy sell. These are things that some would not shop for online - others will. A nitro tank on a mag - maybe. A barrel system - could possibility.

Now, somewhere here I am supposed to round of the question with an idea, a theory that can keep the Tac-One at this lowball price and keep the dealers happy. When I think of it I will let you know, I expect that TK has a plan somewhere, and am curious to see what it is.

[bryceeden]

I am sure Tom will come up with something. That being said, There are several mag upgrades: Warpfeeds, Level 10, ULT stuff, new triggers(hyperframe), new valves(Retro or X), new main bodys in different feed styles, and if people want to go against recomendation new valve "upgrades" from ANS and Shocktech and such. A Level 10 is an easy sale(almost as easy as the RT with a tippmann) with Classics and Minis

[Lohman446]

Originally posted by bryceeden
I am sure Tom will come up with something. That being said, There are several mag upgrades: Warpfeeds, Level 10, ULT stuff, new triggers(hyperframe), new valves(Retro or X), new main bodys in different feed styles, and if people want to go against recomendation new valve "upgrades" from ANS and Shocktech and such. A Level 10 is an easy sale(almost as easy as the RT with a tippmann) with Classics and Minis

The problem there is the Tac-One is going to come with (it sounds like) and X valve (with level 10), and an intelliframe. I don't think the hyperframe will be easy to sell on top of that to its intended market of scenario players. ULT possibly, I really like my trigger pull as it is, as do some others though. Bodies, yes, I expect you will sell a lot of ULE bodies to people like me who buy one for a tournament marker.

[shartley]

Maybe I am wrong, and maybe I misunderstood what Tom wrote, but I think this marker will come with OPTIONS for frames. And from what I understand, it will also come with the OPTION of CO2 or HPA ready.

From reading a lot of posts, it seems that some people think it will only come in ONE model, and that model having all the upgrades and highest levels of parts. And they are using this as a basis to make arguments (or discussion points). But if you figure in that from what I understand (and again I may be reading what Tom has posted wrong), that folks will be given a choice of options, many of these arguing (or discussion points) become moot points at best.