Still think SP is evil? Better read this..........

[AGD]

Jonesie,

I am sorry, I really didn't mean it to be insulting I was actually being serious. About a million bucks is what it would take to do a good promo job. You can't get that kind of money from a bank, only from a partner willing to take the risk. Paintball is not the type of thing people understand in the financial world.

AGD

[Jonesie]

Hey Tom, no harm done. Just trying to play Devil's Advocate to stimulate a little friendly business discussion.

OK, lets pull pback a bit from the whole "Sponsorship" thing and go with a less risky idea...

Try an agressive marketing approach that is in the style of Kingman. The risk is a lot safer, no real dependance on the performance of others, and I'm sure it's a lot cheaper.

Kingman ads are everywhere. Hence, so are Spyders. Now, the Mag and the Spyder are aimed at a totally different customer base, but the concept can still be applied. Moreover, this approach can be attacked on two fronts...

#1: The E-Mag, X-Mag, RT and other "Tournament-level" guns.
Facefull, PGI, PB2x and other mediums that tend to focus on tournament style paintball. Buy two-page ads, plaster the hell outta them with AGD, the Warp, ULE, Flatline, etc. The results may not be apparent immediately, but you will wear down the clientel, eventually AGD will seem as familiar to readers as WDP, WGP, or the Timmah!

#2: The TacOne, Mini, RT, Mag, and other "Rec" level guns.
Advertise these in such magazines as APG, and other "rec-ball" or "Scenario Ball" publications.

#3: An added idea. Produce one of those full color catalogs like JT and SmartParts put out. Send some to every paintball store in the nation. This is a relatively low cost option, that should put your products in the hands of every player (who visits a shop). Not to mention the fact that everyone loves free stuff.

Just a few ideas to kick around for the new year. Lower risk (and hopefully lower cost) than sponosorship, but the returns should be more than marginally higher.

Best of Luck ~ Jonesie

[Richter]

catalogs are expensive; my buddy is possibly doing a 2 color, 80 page catalog for a local business. Currently his hourly rate is 80/hour but for such a large bit of work he is possibly going a little lower than the hourly rate. at 3 hours a page 80*3= 240 hours just to do the design work. that doesn't include the printing time and cost, distribution, or having it professioally edited/proofread.

For magazines; have you actually looked at the full page advertising rates? If i remember correctly there around 2000 for a full page in one issue. Mind you get discounts for running same adds mulitple months or by how many more adds you have in one issue. I make you a bet that kingman spends more than 5 to 10 grand a month on adds in just one magazine.

[AGD]

To give you an example, Budd last time I counted was doing 15 pages in the major magazines. At 2k per page that's $30,000 PER MONTH. That's a lot of coin and Budd certainly doesn't have a corner on the most adds.


AGD

[maglover52]

no matter what dynasty will still have my support. unless they go to spyders! but i dont think that will happen. i think they should have stuck with wdp or gone to matrixes but its where the money is so i would take that much cash to use smat parts to!

[Jonesie]

OK, Tom. You have provided a good retort to each of my ideas. I will ask some final questions of you before I remove my "Marketing Hat"

Obviously, since your acquisition of AO, you have seen an increse in product sales, is this fair to assume?

TK: Not necessarily true.

Now, my understanding is that AO was a way for you to "get back into paintball" as you were less involved previously working with government stuff. (to put it simply).

TK: Yes it put us directly in touch with the customers.

So, do feel AO was a good investment? Has it incresed you market share at all, or has your share grown proportionally with the market?

TK: Yes it was a terrific investment but like so many things for every answer you get more questions. AO has demonstrated that its almost impossible to come out with things that will be universally liked based on features alone.

I like you grass-roots approach to marketing. I feel that it has the ability to be highly successful long term. The idea is to get Mags out at the fields, thru memebers of AO. Then let people shoot those Mags to realize how much they've changed since the bead-blasted tubes came out. (BTW - I LOVE my bead-blasted body).

TK: Yes that was the plan, it worked for Krispy Kreme who do verly little advertising but a lot of outreach. Here on AO we try and giveaway the warm dounuts.

AO seems to be the most viable solution for your company, until other alternatives become available. I know you had purchsed banner ad space on WarPig, have you considered doing the same on other high-traffic PB sites, such as PBN, FoN, or any others? If so, do you think that they have paid-off?
TK: As AO has pointed out, the internet world clearly knows about us, its the rest of the world thats lagging.

TK: This is a chicken and egg problem. THe bigger companies have more visibilty with bigger add budgets. With the percentage of marketing hype in paintball today this leaves the smaller companies out in the cold. Add budgets are usually based on a percentage of sales. Even if we doubled that percentage, against our gross we would still be invisible.

Simply put, it takes a bell ringer of a product to take off on its own and be a hit. That happens less frequently than it used to. It happen to Bob Long who didn't do a thing different to make the timmy a big hit. Once it was rolling he could then promote it and make cool bodies etc. Conversely, Angel has fallen off the pedastal from no fault of their own. They still do some of the best marketing in the business and yet they are struggling. So you can see that not having adds doesnt prevent you from success and having adds doesn't keep you from collapsing.

This is a fashion concious industry and like clothes you never know what the next style to hit is going to be.

AGD


I would like to thank you for being a good sport thru this conversation. I really thin I've learned a great deal from your input!

Thanks ~ David

[teamkamakazee]

tom i need help im starting a pb buisiness

hey tom,

im starting a pb buisiness and i was wondering if you could give me some buisiness pointers because you seem to be pretty knowlegable about your company.and i think smart parts made a good buisiness move if they had a patened design the other companies should have looked to see if any one did that would save them from getting sued. every one is trying to copy the smart part design ( except you tom) and look what is happening to them they are getting sued now well they should have put there minds together and came up with there own design so in a way the companies that got sued are copying smart parts TOM PLEASE PM ME WITH A RESPONSE

[AGD]

Teamk,

It has been my ongoing recomendation that people treat paintball as a fun hobby not as a money making business. If you are going into this business you should be aware that even though you invent and develop your own unique product today, another company can come out with a patent later that they can sue you over. If you don't understand how this could possibly happen, then you should look for another line of work.

Respectfully,

AGD

[ZyperioN]

now if i'm reading that correctly, thats Tom laying down some massive ownage

[AGD]

I anwered Jonsie in his thread.

AGD

[shartley]

Originally posted by ZyperioN
now if i'm reading that correctly, thats Tom laying down some massive ownage

[teamkamakazee]

im thinking you dont want any more competion tom HAHAHA im just playing around i am into the sport for fun and since i love it so much i was thinking hey maybe i can make a few bucks to the side by making something it is worth a try

[Jonesie]