Electro Logic Vert Automag Frame????????

[speedyejl]

I'm not sure but WAS claims their board can handle 1.5amps which would more than cover the solenoid since its most likely down in miliamps, but I'm not sure if I'm missing a technical aspect here.

[CoolHand]

The WAS boards are rated at 1.5A continous, and 5A startup (short burst). The solenoid I have reads 1.2 Ohms of resistance. The biggest question is what voltage goes from the board to the solenoid? I measured 1.5 volts at the terminals with no solenoid hooked up (couldn't get a reading with it hooked up), but that is with no load. If it really only runs at 1.5V, then the 'noid (I love that ) only requires 1.25A, and we are golden. However, if it really uses 9V, and the resistance is constant (which it is), then it will draw 7.5A, and we are boned.

So unless I am missing something, or my circuit theory is way off, or I am full of crap (which is possible, and of the three, the most plausable :) ), we need to know the rated draw of the solenoid in amps, or at the very minimum the rated voltage output at the board, to determine if the WAS board is a reality, or just a pipe dream.

[sslecyk03]

please be a reality, pleaase pleaasseeee

[No Excuse]

The reason I was asking about power a few posts back was because essentially we are using the board for a purpose other than what it was originally designed.

The WAS board is used in timmys and similar guns, which all have a light short 3way which would not require much power.
The battery on my angel will only source 1amp at 6v which is 6watts.

Ive heard of the solenoids in the centerflags getting very hot (this suggests high current and backs up your 1.5v theory)

But i also heard they sometimes needing higher voltage batteries in order to trip the sear reliably.
This suggests more than 1.5v needed.

The only proper measure of voltage is without a current drawing load so your voltage measurement should be correct.

Heres what I get for power ratings.

Centerflag solenoid at 1.5V
1.875watts

Centerflag solenoid at 9V
67.5watts

WAS board at 1.5V 1.5A
2.25watts

Was board at 9V 1.5A
13.5watts


That suggests to me that at 1.5V it will work.

Coolhand if you measure the current going to the solenoid in the centerflag board when in normal use then it will be clear how much current we need to source.
From this we can work out voltage and power.

[Iron Mag13]

Ok as i said before im a n33b when it comes to elctro so i have a qustion. what are Eyes??? i hear evrybody talking about it. and i had a qustion about ACE but some budy already said it

When the lvl x tries to shoot and the ball isnt in the breech yet it "chuffs". This means one of your trigger pulls did not result in a ball fired. Chufing also puts some people of their firing rhythm.

that i think i the was? i dont know so plz answer

[No Excuse]

I have just been looking at batteries and their maximum current and power ratings.

The standard 9V battery will only provide 1 watt at 9V. If a good Duracell is 3 times this then thats 3watts, enough to power our noid at 1.5V but nowhere near the 65watts needed to power it at 9V.


This suggests to me that the noid does only need 1.5v and we are good to go.

However we are still using the board for something it has never been used for and wasnt designed to do.

So we are stepping into the unknown.

[No Excuse]

Originally posted by Iron Mag13
Ok as i said before im a n33b when it comes to elctro so i have a qustion. what are Eyes??? i hear evrybody talking about it. and i had a qustion about ACE but some budy already said it that i think i the was? i dont know so plz answer

The eyes look in the breech so the gun knows if there is a ball ready to fire.

If you fire and the ball is not in the breech yet it will wait for it to drop in and then shoot it for you.

[Iron Mag13]

And all this goes on a classic 68 mag?? Thats kick***!!!!!!!!!

[phantomhitman]

thanks again no excuse and coolhand, i am learning from this building process.

[lightning rift]

way back when this thread was only 2 pages long i mentioned aquiring our own 'noids, instead of buying them from CF or whoever. there are many electronics sites that sell all kinds of noids in all shapes, sizes, votages, and have force vs. time graphs for each one. i dont have the time at the moment to go through them all, but it might be less of a hassel to buy our own noids that are much much smaller than the CF ones and are designed to deal with a lesser force. thus, people will be forced to buy the ULT upgrade, but we can work around our means instead of other companies.

just my .02

[CoolHand]

I am inclined to agree with you NoExcuse, as the other choices seem pretty far out there.

The only other thing I am worried about is this giant capacitor that was mounted to the CF board. It is a 10,000 MicroFerad, and is soldered to the board next to the solenoid plug. The board is coated in some kind of thick green gunk. I can't see the traces, so I am not sure where it actually runs to.

The WAS board will not have one, and I am wondering as to the reason for its being there in the first place. The cap, if set inline with the solenoid would prolong the amount of current ran to it, leaving it energized longer than the split second that you pulled the trigger. If you leave the solenoid energized longer, essentially you would have dwell. What if CF didn't want to build the dwell setting into the software, so they just pluck the cap inline with the 'noid (there's that word again :) ), and let that be the non-adjustable dwell setting.

If that is the case, we are good again, 'cause the WAS board has adjustable dwell built into the software. BUT, if the cap is there because the solenoid really does need 65watts to fire, we are once again boned.

Lots of pitfalls on this particular trip ain't there?

[No Excuse]

It is possible that the board is using the caps charge cycle for timing, given that the mag sear does its own timing you would still get consistent velocity from this relatively inaccurate way of timing.

It could also be as you say, wired to the noid to provide a buffer of current and to give an appropriate voltage/time curve for the solenoid.

Or if wired in paralell with the switch it will provide a primitive system of debounce.


Either way theres no reason why we cant have our own capacitor in there if needed for the right curve and a bit more power.

10 millifarad is big but its not gonna make a 3w battery produce 60watts.
It would make your battery die minutes.

The only way to be sure is to get an Ammeter in series with the noid and fire the hyperfame.

If you dont have an ammeter you can do simple tests with fuses to measure peak current.

[No Excuse]

Originally posted by lightning rift
way back when this thread was only 2 pages long i mentioned aquiring our own 'noids, instead of buying them from CF or whoever. there are many electronics sites that sell all kinds of noids in all shapes, sizes, votages, and have force vs. time graphs for each one. i dont have the time at the moment to go through them all, but it might be less of a hassel to buy our own noids that are much much smaller than the CF ones and are designed to deal with a lesser force. thus, people will be forced to buy the ULT upgrade, but we can work around our means instead of other companies.

just my .02

I would expect CF to use the best noid for the application. I have only heard good things about the reliability of the centerflag board so I think Coolhand should try and emulate the way their gun trips the sear as closely as possible.

Also some peoples guns wont accept a ULT, mine included.

[SaS]

those hyperframe boards.. do they still come in different firing modes? Perhaps it has something to do with their infamous Hypermode? Where you don't have to be pulling the trigger as fast as it's actually shooting

[speedyejl]

Originally posted by No Excuse

way their gun trips the sear as closely as possible.

Also some peoples guns wont accept a ULT, mine included.

Thats just a matter of drilling it out right?