AKA Legal Defense Fund Pledge Drive!

[Dragonphreak]

I agree with theraidenproject. People don't seem to think that if AKA lost and Had to SP for a patent they didn't rightfully own (In my own opinion) we wouldn't see the cost. If AKA lost and had to pay $50 on every gun they sold, that would raise the cost of the gun $50. We see the costs in the end. If I can donate $10 and prevent having to pay that $50 later on a new gun, it was a good investment, right?

[shartley]

[thei3ug]

1) your opinion of the red cross is warped and incorrect, based on popular assumptions and rumors. The red cross is regionally organized and in some locals, the ONLY source of volunteer blood. You don't give, people don't get transfusions. End of story.

2) THe steel industry died for many reasons. My family was a part of the creditors committee for LTV and I spent many of my weekends flying out to Cleveland trying to keep that company afloat before the board took off with what money they could. Poor management structure and high union costs played a part, but when overseas firms don't have to pay their workers a minimum wage, don't have environmental laws, and don't have worker safety laws, and then they dump steel below their cost to flood the US market under the blanket of WTO, of course steel companies are going to go out of business. But of course, that's not the issue, is it? You just wanted to sound smart and talk about industry from a 3rd person perspective. Meanwhile I'm watching families lose their homes because the mills can't burn enough heats to hire him back, and watching grandfathers lose 3/4 of their pensions because when mills go chapter 11, the money turned out not to exist at all. If you want to tell them "i'm sorry, I had to give 20 bucks to a firm that employs 10 people and makes high-tech toys for middle agers, i can't be bothered with your loss," be my guest. That's what I see.

3) This lawsuit will cost AKA probably more than 40,000 dollars, maybe more than 80,000. Who knows, more than that? Maybe you don't understand... I plan on helping. I've been spreading word of this fund, but I will refuse to contribute for free to a for profit organization as a charity. Once again, if this were some sort of loan to assist them i'd be more than happy to, but it isn't. that's what i stated, and you made it into a moral crusade of The Greater Good, which I should probably remind you that I'm an Objectivist, and don't believe that the greater good is good at all.

4) this thread isn't for the like minded. it's for the discussion of the topic. If you want to play thread commando, start your own board where you can be moderator.

You are all defending AKA. I have no problem with that. You want to help in the lawsuit, though whatever money you bring in will be a nickel compared to what AKA puts up. That is also fine. I never demanded you stop. I questioned the ETHICS of DONATING MONEY to a FOR PROFIT organization. IF you see a contradiction, that if they win the lawsuit, it means they basically made whatever money went into the fund as a PROFIT, and still don't mind, that's fine. I am merely POINTING OUT that fact.

If you think that even admitting that is wrong, and I should mind my own business... well, take it off a public forum, because telling people that they shouldn't voice their opinion where people will read it when you voice yours is rather silly.

[spantol]

I never said that you couldn't voice your opinion. I was merely pointing out that it was off topic, and bad form.

This thread, as stated in the original post, is for those that wish to contribute to AKA's defense--while knowing full well that they're supporting a for-profit organization, and that they're under know moral or ethical obligation to do so--to chime in, and to keep a running total of pledges. A similar thread is running in the AKA forum at PBNation, and it will be interesting to see how the totals compare.

If you wish to discuss the relative merits for and against doing so, you're welcome to start a new thread, one expressly for that purpose. I'll note that the PBNation thread has actually managed to stay relatively on-topic, while this one veered far off around the top of page two.

[Hexis]

Originally posted by thei3ug
I questioned the ETHICS of DONATING MONEY to a FOR PROFIT organization. IF you see a contradiction, that if they win the lawsuit, it means they basically made whatever money went into the fund as a PROFIT, and still don't mind, that's fine. I am merely POINTING OUT that fact.

www.m-w.com
Main Entry:
Pronunciation: 'e-thik
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ethik, from Middle French ethique, from Latin ethice, from Greek EthikE, from Ethikos
Date: 14th century
1 plural but singular or plural in construction : the discipline dealing with what is good and bad and with moral duty and obligation
2 a : a set of moral principles or values b : a theory or system of moral values ethic> c plural but singular or plural in construction : the principles of conduct governing an individual or a group ethics> d : a guiding philosophy

It's clear there is no single set of principles in this group (which is fine). This puts us in the relm of individual principles. Since we are applying our own individual principles to the situation, perhaps we can simply leave the matter at folks will do what they feel is right, and leave others to make the same decision.

thei3ug you may feel that donating money to a for profit corporation is worthless. Others may see it as donating to the painball community in general, through a for profit company.

Implying a donation is ethicaly wrong applies your set of values and principals to others.

[sygyzy]

I haven't been following everything 100% but I like how AKA has to be convinced to set up a legal defense fund to benefit THEM!

That's like saying "if you guys really want, you can give us money."

Rediculous. A better solution would have been them asking for help rather than have their customer solicit them to offer help.

[Dragonphreak]

To me, they didn't say anything, its like the analogy already given where they just had a basket of money dropped on the door with a note saying "Keep up the fight."

[DK1]

Originally posted by shartley
I know I said I was through with this thread, but I HAVE to point out that the talk about passing the cost down to the consumer was the main WARNING folks were yelling when they went after IDC. This process has been going on for how long? And how much has the price of markers gone up BECAUSE of it?

Yes, that theory sounds good typed in a post and using numbers pulled off the top of everyone?s heads, but it never came to be. And since several companies have already entered the fold of SP, you would think the consumer would already notice the ?impact?? but they haven?t.

Paintball markers are TOYS. They serve only one purpose? to PLAY. I feel they are ALL overpriced? LOL

Well, not to stir the fire, but ICD markers did increase in price for the 2k4 year. They didn't say why, but they did issue the notice.

DK1

[shartley]

Originally posted by DK1
Well, not to stir the fire, but ICD markers did increase in price for the 2k4 year. They didn't say why, but they did issue the notice.

DK1

[DK1]

oh sure, prices go up all the time, I never said that the price hike was due to SP. I just find it interesting that a company that has been either lowering its prices or improving their markers without increasing price for the past 4 years would all of the sudden throw a $85 hike across pretty much all their product line. I'll shoot them an email about it... not that I expect them to answer that question.

DK1

[tr0n]

Originally posted by logamus
its a cold hard world boys and girls, you can either compete or you cant.

Yeah but when you are stifling competition through unfair legal matters intead of making a better product or a lower price range, there's a problem. It's wrong.