An Interesting Thought on how to Control the ROF with Cheater Boards

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by nerobro
Well, controling a servo is easy. the big question is can it cycle 20x a seccond. Servos are also cheap. Programming amicrocontroler to control a servo is braindead easy....

not thinking about servos.

Real time tracking of every players fps, bps, standard deviation of those two, line of sight, and location on field. Also, direction of view and location on field of all referees. As well as notification of players when eliminated by a referee.

Note quite so easy....

But I have found parts and research papers adressing every bit of functionality I'm after.

But, dat's a lot o lurnin.

[edweird]

Originally posted by Miscue
Seems like a 15bps ROF cap to me... except much more involved.

Electronically prevent from people to go above 75mph, or instead chase them with cop cars and radar guns instead of preventing the problem to begin with.

Cue... Im for playing cops and robbers like that... just as long as I get a tire stop strip to throwdown everytime I get a runaway gun when I ref =P

But really I think in the open marker class you will never see a true escape from "Cheater boards". after all noone expects NASCAR to run on 98 octane gas, obviously some are going to blur the line of legality and go for that edge. I think that unless we see some cooperation from board makers this will not change any time soon

If ya want to play on a even keel that is what Stock and Mech only classes would be geared to. Um like I would do =P

[SkyBoySurfer]

yes and let me know when they get camras in there to stop all the cheating...

Instint replay would change the sport in a heart beat...but mabe thats for 05....NPPL claim they dont have enough money to put a few simple video camras in..but they can afford to bring reffs from overseas ...pay for there plain ticket,Room,food,and pay them 150$ a day...but they cant aford 4 camras and a monitor...or just hire a out side production crew for just the fraction of the cost.

Instint replay is what will change the face of paintball...and hopefully with Fox covering it ...it will slowly be realized.

[nerobro]

A servo controled test rig would be cheap. Think $60-70 a pop. Servos are $10, the board and chip would be another $20, and then you need a stand to put the gun in.

:-) at that price, EVERY field could afford one.

[maglover52]

yeah but some times people can get a betetr rythem with the adrenilin rushes. like in a game with a good adrenilin rush i can get like 16 raking on my matrix. but if im just playin in the back yard i can only get like 14. just a thought to throw in there.

[shades]

stanardized equipment

To those who would whine over standardized equipment.
Take a look at any motor sport from soap box to Nascar they regulated them so tightly that you are forced to show your skill.

[Crimson_Turkey]

I say the tourney attaches a chrono to the end of each player's barrel. If Fps gets nasty, ref can be there as soon as it happens. If the bps is a a steady rate, since on semi auto a human will have differing intervals between shots. Now cheater boards would eventually adapt to this so that it would look like semi to the refs. But when bps is high and sustained for a long time a ref could be sent to check the gun. Say one of these things would run 150-200 plus a reciever unit for about 400. Big tourneys could easily afford this, as could alot of good fields.

[Brophog]

I commend you on effort Tapping. Without you to provide a counter argument, we wouldn't be getting all this mental exercise.

There is only two options here: Either legalize full auto/turbo/cheater boards OR keep them illegal. If the user is not in direct control of his firing, i.e. "1 shot/1 pull" then its illegal, as long as the above options are illegal.

Your absolutely right that enforcement is very tough. In the mechanical days, when it was in large part agreed upon that full auto was illegal, it was very easy to implement the semi only rules. However, now with electronics, RT's and trigger bounce, it is very easy for people to shoot higher ROF by being "assisted" by the marker. In my book any marker that shoots more than one shot per user inputted trigger pull is illegal. That includes sweetspotted Automag RT's, and Tippmann RT's. Simply holding your finger in one place and letting the trigger bounce back and forth is not one trigger pull.

Your also correct that the "illegals" are always one step a head of the rules. That however is not justification for not instituting and enforcing rules. Think of steroid use in sports. I think it is commonly agreed that it should be illegal, even though enforcement is extremely tough. Some steroids leave the body earlier than others and are undetected. Companies are constantly producing illegal steroids that are undectable by the testing agencies. However, the testing agencies eventually catch up, and the cycle is repeated with a new mechanism for defeating the testing.

Using your example of fairness, maybe we should just allow all athletes to dope up. According to you, as long as its "fair" then there should not be a rule against it, right? Allow all athletes that can afford it to cheat, just like your condoning all paintball players than can afford it to do the same. Its all fair that way correct? According to you and others, paintball players should cheat because others are doing the same, even though there are consequences for doing such. That's how the atheletic world works as well. Some guys cheat with drugs and risk getting caught. Some guys cheat because others are cheating. That still doesnt make it fair for those who still play with honor and integrity, those whom are above cheating at all costs.

Just because its "fair" doesn't make it right, whether that implies to athletics or paintball. If you are illegally getting an edge, that is wrong. Steroids are wrong, and so are illegal paintball markers.

[OfficerGoat]

Personaly I also think the answer is onboard telemitry. However I think the telemitry units should be seperate from the guns and issued by the refs prior to the match. It would be easy to setup a barrel chrono and to monitor the trigger and when it is pulled. At that point who cares what board is in the gun or how the dwell changes etc etc etc... The player pulls the trigger once the gun shoots onece... if it shoots more the refs will know right then and there what is up. The important bit here is that the gear will atach to any gun.. mechanical or no... and is acurate. I think it can be done... no... I KNOW this can be done.

The other thing about this is it give teams the advantage of knowing what is going on with their guns at all times. I would love to know if a gun is shooting down or is suffering from inconsistancy. It would also let techs know if the eyes are missing and players are getting dry fires and the circumstances when this happens. Makes for some serious tuning capabilites.

Also wouldn't it be cool to see shots fired and average bps next to a players name? I know it would be cool to see that number and how fast it climbs right off the break.

So far as cheaters bypasing this... sure it could happen... would it be hard to pull off... yes and thats the whole point. Does random drug testing catch all of the players using drigs? Nope. Does having the CHP patrol stop speeders? Nope. Then whats the point? It reduces the problem and reduces the vlagrancy of which people break the rules. And thats a pretty good start.

[hitech]

Originally posted by OfficerGoat
Personally I also think the answer is onboard telemetry.

The problem is cost. MINIMUM of $500 per unit. Chronos that can process every shot up to 20bps or more are expensive. Add the trigger monitor that works with EVERY marker and the telemetry hardware and it gets expensive fast. It would work well, but cost WAY to much.

[OfficerGoat]

I think I can beat that price... by alot. Anyone remember a bit of vaporware called the Cyber9000?? It had these abilitys and was a competitively priced marker. Only reason it never made it to market is that Smart Parts pulled the lets sue another manufacture out off biz trick that they are so fond of.

Even if It were twice that per gun ... if you are going to put the sport on television it would be well worht it and the Entertainment industry can afford that sort of stuff.

[hitech]

Originally posted by OfficerGoat
I think I can beat that price... by alot.

Then it would make a great product, regardless of it's possible tournament use. As you said, tuning/testing would be FAR easier. You chould easily determine what effect your changes had on GAME TIME performance.

Originally posted by OfficerGoat
Even if It were twice that per gun ... if you are going to put the sport on television it would be well worth it and the Entertainment industry can afford that sort of stuff.

They might, but getting anyone to spend the money isn't going to happen.