Mandatory Trigger Pull Weight - an Effective Means to Curb the ROF Problem?

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  • cledford
    Registered User
    • Feb 2001
    • 1386

    #1

    Mandatory Trigger Pull Weight - an Effective Means to Curb the ROF Problem?

    There has been a lot of talk recently about limiting BPS, dealing with cheater boards and moving back from the 20+ BPS range that we've reached. A lot of the justification for the movement "backward" includes: safety concerns, the promotion of more dynamic movement (for better viewing), and to reduce the "digital divide" between those sponsored (with limitless paint and top end guns) and those paying their own way.

    One of the most prevalent suggestions I've see so far is the re-banning of "force-feed" hoppers like the HALO and Warp. I think this is a bad idea - as force-feed serves useful purposes other than to feed a hunger "e-marker." Force feed insures that no matter what angle you come out, over, or around a bunker there will also be a positive feed - until the HALO came out there was always a question about this. Furthermore, systems like the warp change the nature of the game by moving the loader off the top of the gun - there is no denying that someone who plays against a warp for the first time remembers the experience! So, my point is that force-feed systems provide more than speed to markers. Don't forget the fact that should they be banned that essentially the entire market would be given (on a silver platter) back to Brass Eagle. To me it just seems silly to give up the enhanced reliability of the force-fed hopper to limit BPS which could be done through other means.

    My idea is, why not establish a MANDATORY trigger pull weight? It can be done quite easily and checked rapidly. Manufacturers could still make BPS claims (like sport motorcycle companies tout 1/4 mile times and top end speed), the markers could still be electronic (face it - it is cool to tweak dwell electronically vs. disassembling the marker to change springs) (furthermore shot counters and such are neat also), yet the BPS would definitely go down. This doesn't address the bounce issue - but it sure would be easier to spot someone with an illegal gun.

    For those who question the idea I get it from competitive shooting events - especially speed shooting. There is certainly an advantage to light trigger pulls in speed events that are won by milliseconds - but there is even more of a safety concern. To that end, at all well run matches, triggers are weighed with a VERY simple system. The penalty for the trigger breaking to lightly is simple and effective - the gun cannot be used. The process is VERY effective and works.

    Since mechanical triggers usually have to travel further - there could even be 2 standards with a slightly higher weight for the shorter travel on the "e-trigger." This could effectively bring mechanicals back - there would then be valid reasons for going with one or the other - yet the field would in the end remain fairly level. I might choose a RT Pro due to the lighter weight and reliability (due to batteries or weather) and you might choose the E-gun due to no chance of short stroking. In the end everyone might have one of each

    What do you guys think? It seems a lot more fair then banning more reliable loaders, and a lot easier then trying to determine BPS - trigger weighing is EXTREMELY low tech - therefore a LOT cheaper to reliably implement.

    -Calvin
    From a poster at PB Nation:

    ""Jim, back to your cave. Bob Long is on the batphone..."

    MY FEEDBACK
  • fallout11

    #2
    I'd support that.
    Good thoughts, Calvin.
    I really liked the competitive shooting (IDPA) analogy. Right on the money there.

    IDPA has a separate class for revolvers, too.
    Much like the pump/stock class discussion.

    Comment

    • gtrsi
      Automag?
      • Dec 2001
      • 5786

      #3
      Re: Mandatory Trigger Pull Weight - an Effective Means to Curb the ROF Problem?

      Originally posted by cledford

      My idea is, why not establish a MANDATORY trigger pull weight?
      There already is! It is listed in the ANSI standard. You would be suprised how heavy it is.
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      • Muzikman
        Everything AGD
        • Dec 2000
        • 6229

        #4
        *clap* *clap* *clap*

        Great idea...

        Comment

        • fallout11

          #5
          Re: Re: Mandatory Trigger Pull Weight - an Effective Means to Curb the ROF Problem?

          Originally posted by gtrsi


          There already is! It is listed in the ANSI standard. You would be suprised how heavy it is.
          That's because "hair triggers" are inherently dangerous, unreliable, and unpredictable.

          Sport shooters, firearm experts, law enforcement personel, the military, and insurance companies agree.

          Comment

          • Gadget
            UK Redskins
            • Jun 2002
            • 472

            #6
            That's a very good idea.

            It scares me that people actually brag about having triggers so light that they go off if you put the marker down on a table heavily.
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            • Steelrat
              I meant to...uh, nevermind
              • May 2003
              • 5375

              #7
              Would a standard favor people with stronger fingers? Right now its easy to customize a trigger so it works well for you, would imposing a standard like that unfairly penalize some people?

              Is any league going to go along with any of these BPS limiting suggestions, anyways? From what Ive seen, leagues are dependent on sponsors, and the sponsors are trying to sell fast guns and loads of paint. How can you convince them that it is in their best interest to slow down the guns and reduce paint consumption?


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              Comment

              • fallout11

                #8
                The same way they convinced NASCAR sponsors that restrictor plates, regulated car weights, horsepower, engine size, fuel capacity, drag coefficients, and spoiler size and angles were a good idea.

                Nascar rules were made without regard to sponsor's wishes.

                In fact, sponsors do not make the rules in sports.
                I do not see why they should even be given a moment's thought in paintball.

                Paintball is the oddity.
                This is also why paintball should have a 'regulating body' that is independent of the sponsors.
                As it is in every other sport.

                The interests of the sport as a whole do not necessarily coencide with those of its sponsors.
                Last edited by Guest; 01-28-2004, 10:11 AM.

                Comment

                • thei3ug
                  Canicus
                  • Oct 2000
                  • 846

                  #9
                  because unlike many other sports, the sponsors ARE the events in paintball. There's no real way to get around it.
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                  Comment

                  • Z-man
                    You guys lost me
                    • Jul 2001
                    • 2202

                    #10
                    What about people like me with the Mech RT that can do 22bps? My RT is not modifited in any way but I can outshoot about anyone with this heavy trigger of mine .



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                    Comment

                    • 68magOwner
                      Registered User
                      • May 2003
                      • 3475

                      #11
                      ok, NASCAR is a huge corperation, i would like you to find examples of where those rules ar enforces at some local dirt track. if you people ar talking about enforcing these regulations for just pro leagues, then thats great. but there is NO WAY that it will be enforced at all fields, there is a place around here that has almost no safety regulations. even the shop owners/ref's have CRAZY trigger bounce. and you are not forced to chrono untill someone screams that your shooting hot (although i dont know if there are any people who dont chrono) but if a rule such as this were instated it would NEVER be inforced there, and im shure there are other fields like it. also, rules like this would make bandit balling more and more popular. therefore giving paintball a worse and worse image. I think all this bps talk is reducilous, ive been overshot bu a kid wiht a tippy(no e trigger) then ive ever been overshot by any of the kids with e-markers. also, i have never seen any serious injury come from overshooting. i dont see why its such a big "safety issue". i dont think that bouncy triggers are a great thing or anything, but i do feel that if a person can shoot fast un-aided then they should be able too. alot of people here seem to be in the mindset that this will encourage players to use mech markers, well woo hoo, i bet it will encourage just as many players to quit the sport. things like this serve no logical purpose, if people are that concerned with ROF, then find better ways to control bounce, and sweetspotting
                      BTW- if we get something like this instated, i guarentee that the next battle will be aginst sweet spotting triggers. face it, people like to shoot fast, they will find a way too

                      Comment

                      • hitech
                        Not a shedder of vortices
                        • Nov 2001
                        • 4775

                        #12
                        I like the idea. Especially since it was the first idea I had when this discussion all started. I didn't know about the trigger pull weight requirements in any of the competitive shooting events. It makes sense though. Although I like the idea, I though there already was a rule that prevented these "hair triggers" that apparently isn't being enforced. It states that the marker cannot be made to fire my means other that pulling the trigger. That if my applying an external force such as bumping the marker it fires it is not allowed. I don't remember the exact wording (come on, someone can find it for me), but it was something along those lines. That would exclude the "hair triggers". However, I still like your idea. It is MUCH easier and consistent to test for. Maybe it would actually be enforced!


                        Hey Hitech your starting to sound like me! - AGD
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                        Comment

                        • fallout11

                          #13
                          Originally posted by thei3ug
                          because unlike many other sports, the sponsors ARE the events in paintball. There's no real way to get around it.
                          Hmmm....I think we may have hit on the basic flaw behind the whole problem.

                          Imagine if I sponsored an event, and said "Welcome, now here are my rules to my event...."
                          How well whould that be received.

                          Sponsors are driving the boat, and that's good for them, business-wise.
                          But what are they doing FOR the sport in return?

                          Does paintball have such a low attraction for John Q. Public that the only way to get an event running is by letting "sponsors" run the show?
                          Paintball events are a "charity" of sorts, put on by manufacturers?
                          Paintball has no attraction of its own, it has to be "promoted" and "sponsored" by them?

                          Hmmmmm......

                          Bread and circuses for all.

                          Comment

                          • Steelrat
                            I meant to...uh, nevermind
                            • May 2003
                            • 5375

                            #14
                            In NASCAR, the sponsors don't generally build the cars, or make the gasoline and oil. Paintball sponsors not only have money tied up directly in the equipment and paintballs being sold and utilized at the tournament, they depend on teams promoting their equipment. In fact, generating marketing opportunities seems to be the primary reason that there are even tournaments at all.

                            Also, in paintball, there is much more focus on the equipment. If you level the playing field, how is that going to benefit the sponsors? Sponsors in NASCAR have no inherent interest in the equiment being used, and instead focus on the driver. The sponsors in paintball are all equipment manufacturers.


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                            Comment

                            • fallout11

                              #15
                              Okay, I'll bring it down a notch.

                              IHRA, or hot rodding. Small time, much smaller than NASCAR.

                              Sponsors ARE equipment manufacturers, as in paintball, and sponsor the events.

                              Yet they have MASSIVE rules, class restrictions, etc.
                              IHRA has an independent rules making body.

                              Paintball would do well to look closely.

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