Bonus Ball Question...Somethin to think about

[Beemer]

Re: Bonus Ball Question...Somethin to think about

Originally posted by acropilot19
Heres a question for you AO'ers that occurred to me while reading the DMW thread...

I play paintball for fun, I wanna have fun & I want the people I play with (wether I know em or not) to have fun to. I'm out there for a good time.

Call me intuitive but one thing I've noticed is that when people are mad they usually aint havin a good time.

For the record I wanna say I consider myself a Very even-tempered guy, calm under pressure, laid-back, etc...

Now, with all these advances in ROF & the understandable trend towards Soft, Baggy, Billowing clothing to "catch" or bounce paint, I've come apon a problem...

Ive encountered the situation a buncha times where a "target" pops out (usually one or both of us is moving), we exchange paint (usually lots), one or both gets lit, They(not me) get MAD.

Personal experience has shown that now more than ever the paint is just as likely to bounce as it is break. Plus, the natural tendency when you have a "Machine-Gun" in your hands is to use it.

So I ask: WHY, if
-The gun wants to shoot,
-the Paint wants to Bounce &
-The Clothes want to "Catch"
are people gettin so pissed off when the actually have 5 or 6 balls thump 'em in the chest?

If I KNEW that ONE ball I just threw at you WOULD break if I hit you square, I would'nt bother sending five more.

I dont enjoy gettin lit, but I wear that same kinda baggy outfit for the sole purpose of bouncin your well-placed shot(s), so I understand the "why" of it.

I just think its funny the same people that pay big bucks for higher ROF & baggy paint bouncin clothes get PO'ed when they get lit OUT OF NECESSITY.

Comments?

This part is great

So I ask: WHY, if
-The gun wants to shoot,
-the Paint wants to Bounce &
-The Clothes want to "Catch"
are people gettin so pissed off when the actually have 5 or 6 balls thump 'em in the chest?

I know theres at least 5 more coming so it dont bother me unless you follow me , then I will say something.

Paint that breaks and clothes that dont catch, that would be PaintBall.

The marker needs to replaced with one that the user can safely control.

Classic

[Beemer]

Originally posted by fallout11
I never bonus ball, no matter what the circumstances.
Nor will I start.

Paintball is a sport, and thus, by (my) definition of "sport", an affair of mutual integrity, honor, trust, and respect.
Besides, it's just a game. What does it matter?


Finally, remember that you, as an individual can and potentially will be held accountable for your own actions.
Be a role model.

up for that

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

Originally posted by fallout11
I never bonus ball, no matter what the circumstances.
Nor will I start.

Paintball is a sport, and thus, by (my) definition of "sport", an affair of mutual integrity, honor, trust, and respect.
Besides, it's just a game. What does it matter?


Finally, remember that you, as an individual can and potentially will be held accountable for your own actions.
Be a role model.

I take it that you are a rec baller? There is nothing wrong with being a rec baller, but you have to look at it through the tourney players eyes. I'd rather put 10 balls on someone and make them pissed then put 1 ball on someone and then they either wipe or the ball ends up bouncing (this is in tournaments, not rec ball).

When I'm out there playing for fun or with n00bs, then yes, I get pissed to get overshot. The only time overshooting is justifible is if you are in a tournament and you are not sure you hit the guy or if he isn't getting out of the game after he got an obvious hit or when you are practicing with your team, but even then you shouldn't get overshot. And honestly, most of the time if I do overshoot someone, it is an accident. If I am laying a string of paint down, and you walk into it or if you stick your head out, I can't pull the paint out the air. If you shoot 20 bps, and someone sticks their head out for 1 sec, I can almost guarentee that more then one will hit them, and I can be almost 100% sure that if more then one hits the person, one of them will bounce. When I spend the money it takes to play a tournament, I'm playing to win, and if I'm uncertain if you got hit or not, I will keep shooting at you until I KNOW for certain that you are out. If your gun is over your head, and you called yourself out or if a ref pulled you out, then I will stop shooting, but as long as you are behind a bunker or have a gun that doesn't have a barrel condom/plug in it, it's fair gain.

[BlueFish28]

I play pump, in fact, the only semi gun i own is a sidekick, so i dont need to shoot more than one ball at a time, because i know if i see your hopper, i hit it, and it will break. if i see your head, guess what, someone just got gogged. I EXPECT other players (rec ball here) to follow the same personal rules. its a matter of respect for other players. I know it only takes one break to constitute an elimination, so i make those hits count. its just more fun.

i was playing at an indoor field where mostly tourney type players played and i carried my rec ball attitude with me in there, even though it was a "tournament" type atmosphere. I let people know that if i hit them, they'd better walk, just as if they hit me, i walk. maybe its just me. but i dont play to win necessarily, i play to have fun, and if i can win and have fun at the same time, then great, but i've had just as much fun getting my butt handed to me on a silver platter.

Over shooting is completely unneccessary. its the attitude that says that its ok in tourneys that kinda gets on my nerves. because a lot of tourney players practice at the fields i play, and that attitude gets passed on to the other rec ballers.

as a ref, if someone shoots someone and three break (rec or not) i'll punch their tag. it deters newer players to the sport. (overshooting)
as a player, if i have been hit and i dont know if it broke, i'll take cover and call a ref over, thats what they are for, if it broke, nice shot, i take the walk, if it didnt, nice shot no break, and i shoot back. thats the way it works.

so i suppose the best way to sum it up would be to say this: Play as if your integrety were on the line, even if it isn't. people dont like whiners, people dont like cheaters. so lets get rid of the mentality that this kind of behavior is acceptable.

there is no question to whether or not it broke when they can see my paint between their eyes. thats how i operate. head shots. (plus medics cant heal head shots in scenario play)

[JEDI]

Originally posted by RT pRo AuToMaG


I take it that you are a rec baller? There is nothing wrong with being a rec baller, but you have to look at it through the tourney players eyes. I'd rather put 10 balls on someone and make them pissed then put 1 ball on someone and then they either wipe or the ball ends up bouncing (this is in tournaments, not rec ball).

When I'm out there playing for fun or with n00bs, then yes, I get pissed to get overshot. The only time overshooting is justifible is if you are in a tournament and you are not sure you hit the guy or if he isn't getting out of the game after he got an obvious hit or when you are practicing with your team, but even then you shouldn't get overshot. And honestly, most of the time if I do overshoot someone, it is an accident. If I am laying a string of paint down, and you walk into it or if you stick your head out, I can't pull the paint out the air. If you shoot 20 bps, and someone sticks their head out for 1 sec, I can almost guarentee that more then one will hit them, and I can be almost 100% sure that if more then one hits the person, one of them will bounce. When I spend the money it takes to play a tournament, I'm playing to win, and if I'm uncertain if you got hit or not, I will keep shooting at you until I KNOW for certain that you are out. If your gun is over your head, and you called yourself out or if a ref pulled you out, then I will stop shooting, but as long as you are behind a bunker or have a gun that doesn't have a barrel condom/plug in it, it's fair gain.

The words of a serious tourney player. Live with it.

[Miscue]

More hits are harder to wipe.

I'll shoot until: They have a gun raised and are walking off the field... or I've obviously broke paint on him a few times. Gogged once = money. If I just see one on the body, I keep shooting. Wiping prevention and makes extra sure he realizes he got hit so he won't play on accidentally or whatever.

I expect others who don't know me, to do the same to me. 10+ breaks is what I start to consider excessive... situationally of course... and taking free shots while on the way to the dead box is not right. I also expect people to hustle off the field. If they're slow, I'll take shots at them to prevent dead man walks. There's no reason to be slow about it.

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

Originally posted by BlueFish28
I play pump, in fact, the only semi gun i own is a sidekick, so i dont need to shoot more than one ball at a time, because i know if i see your hopper, i hit it, and it will break. if i see your head, guess what, someone just got gogged. I EXPECT other players (rec ball here) to follow the same personal rules. its a matter of respect for other players. I know it only takes one break to constitute an elimination, so i make those hits count. its just more fun.

You are wrong. I have had balls bounce off my mask as well as my hopper. The thing about paintballs are that they aren't like bullets. When you get hit with one, expect it not to break, because half of the time, it doesn't (of course this greatly depends on what type of paint you are using)

i was playing at an indoor field where mostly tourney type players played and i carried my rec ball attitude with me in there, even though it was a "tournament" type atmosphere. I let people know that if i hit them, they'd better walk, just as if they hit me, i walk. maybe its just me. but i dont play to win necessarily, i play to have fun, and if i can win and have fun at the same time, then great, but i've had just as much fun getting my butt handed to me on a silver platter.

Again, as I said in my post above, if it is rec ball, I'm out to have fun, if it is a tourney or team practice, then I'm out to accomplish something. If you were playing with a tourney team while they are practicing, be prepared to get bonus balled. If you are playing a rec game with them, talk to them before the game telling them to tone down a little bit. When playing in a tournament type atmosphere, I assume most people were using electronic guns and were dumping a considerable amount of paint. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure that under the given circumstances, at least one person got overshot per game, correct? Of the people who got bonus balled, how much of it was intentional and what was on purpose? Electronic guns + fast fingers=overshooting. I don't care if you are the most controlled player in the world, if you are laying 20 bps and someone walks into it, they are getting more then 1 ball put on them unless they react really fast, and that rarely happens.

Over shooting is completely unneccessary. its the attitude that says that its ok in tourneys that kinda gets on my nerves. because a lot of tourney players practice at the fields i play, and that attitude gets passed on to the other rec ballers.

Rec ballers shouldn't play when a tournament team is practicing unless they are willing to accept the fact they might get overshot. I don't overshoot people in tournaments to 'teach them a lesson' or just to show off, I do it to make sure that they are out, and most of the time on accident too. If 10 paintballs on one guy can win me a game, then that guy is getting 10 paintballs put on him. If you spend 1000's of dollars on your gear, practice, and pay to play a tournament, maybe you will understand that people are not honest. They wipe, they play on, they wear pads. I myself don't cheat, but I see it everytime I step on the field. If I put 1 ball on someone, they will wipe it. If I put 10 on them, lets say 7 break, try wiping that without a ref noticing. If the 'overshooting is ok' attitude gets passed on to rec ballers, don't blame tournament players. There is a huge difference between rec and tourney, and if they use a tourney playing style on a rec field, well maybe they belong in the tourney scene instead. Instead of blaming tournament players for rec players overshooting, maybe you should talk to the rec players that are doing the overshooting.

as a ref, if someone shoots someone and three break (rec or not) i'll punch their tag. it deters newer players to the sport. (overshooting)

I don't want to play at the field where you ref. That is rediculous. They walk into my string of balls, it's not my fault. When you come up with something that pulls paintballs out of the air, call me, I have beachfront property in Denver to sell you.

as a player, if i have been hit and i dont know if it broke, i'll take cover and call a ref over, thats what they are for, if it broke, nice shot, i take the walk, if it didnt, nice shot no break, and i shoot back. thats the way it works.

THAT IS THE STUPIDEST THING I'VE EVER HEARD! You are telling me that instead of me giving you 2 extra balls and getting the elimination to win a game, I should just put 1 on you and have it bounce? Another thing is that you may be honest, but most players are not. You shot them, but they wipe it. Also, and I don't know about you, but I rarely see someone call a paintcheck on themself.

so i suppose the best way to sum it up would be to say this: Play as if your integrety were on the line, even if it isn't. people dont like whiners, people dont like cheaters. so lets get rid of the mentality that this kind of behavior is acceptable.

If people don't like whiners, then quit whining. If nobody cheated, bounusballing wouldn't be a part of the game. The thing is, no matter how honest you play, someone else WILL be dishonest. I may not wipe, but maybe my teammate does, or maybe the guys on the other team do. I will not let them win the game by cheating. I'd rather empty my hopper on them from a foot away then for them to beat me just because they make the decision to wipe off a hit. This behavior is not acceptable, and I by no means cheat or whine. The fact is, no matter what YOU do, somebody else will do something that they shouldn't.

there is no question to whether or not it broke when they can see my paint between their eyes. thats how i operate. head shots. (plus medics cant heal head shots in scenario play)

People wipe headshots too, especially if it gets in your hair, you can't see it anyway. I don't play scenaios, we are talking tourneys here. People don't wipe and play on because they think its a splatter or they think it bounced. They do it to win! I play honestly, and I know many people who play honestly as well, and it is a great quality. Unfortunately, for every honest player, there is a dishonest one. What to do about it is ultimately your choice, but I know when a tourney is on the line, 5 shots to get a person out is better then 1 shot to lose the game.

[Lee]

personally, i think alot depends on the format.

rec w/ kids and noobs = chill. no need to rip them. show them what the game is about and lend them a hand with thier issues and answer questions etc. i would not dump a halo on a kid with a rental that wasn't coming out. hell, i don't blame him for staying put. he's probably a little confused as to what happened. i call a ref over for him.
i've come out of games to help kids and newbies. rec has nothing at stake, it's just fun.
anyone that overshoots a little kid or a noob (no matter the noobs age) because he thinks he's a badass gets to hear from me.

i've lit up and been lit up. i've been bonused running the sideline to the dead box with my hand and marker up.
sometimes chit happens, take it in context. i'm not saying i have never yelled or griped about it but if i do, i make a point to apologize if it was an accident. but sometimes you never know and fortunately it hasn't happened to me a whole lot.

tourney or practice = play hard, fast, fair and with out mercy. you'll get none from the other team.

dead man walk = that guys getting a new orifice shot in his body. i hate the walk, it's cheating in my opinion. i got banned from a field once for expressing my opinion on that issue. doens't mater though, that field sucked anyway.

yes, i'm an old schooler playing in a new school world.

[Lohman446]

I one time whined about being hit in a single game repeatedly - if I recall I counted 19 sepereate breaks. There was a long story behind it, and once I paused and thought about it, each hit was justified. Needless to say, I felt rather stupid about whining, and resolved not to do that again.

[BlueFish28]

I admit to not playing in many tournaments, and the ones that i did play in, i had to overshoot once. but due to my lack of tournament experience, i'll argue on the rec ball side, thats what i know best.

You are wrong. I have had balls bounce off my mask as well as my hopper. The thing about paintballs are that they aren't like bullets. When you get hit with one, expect it not to break, because half of the time, it doesn't (of course this greatly depends on what type of paint you are using)

We've all experienced bounces in hard spots and it does depend on the paint, i tend to use more thinly shelled paint, so i can be almost 100% sure it will break.

Electronic guns + fast fingers=overshooting. I don't care if you are the most controlled player in the world, if you are laying 20 bps and someone walks into it, they are getting more then 1 ball put on them unless they react really fast, and that rarely happens.

But why do you need to fire that much paint? its a waste of money. I am just as effective with my 2-3bps as some people are with there 12-13bps, there's just more space between my balls in the air. in rec ball, it just isnt necessary.

don't blame tournament players. There is a huge difference between rec and tourney, and if they use a tourney playing style on a rec field, well maybe they belong in the tourney scene instead. Instead of blaming tournament players for rec players overshooting, maybe you should talk to the rec players that are doing the overshooting.

im sorry, i did not mean to imply that i blamed tournament players for rec ballers overshooting. Some local tournament teams practice during regular rec ball games, and if they newer players see that they are over shooting players, they may try to emulate that behavior. i suppose in this instance, they should be on seperate fields, but what do i know.

I don't want to play at the field where you ref. That is rediculous. They walk into my string of balls, it's not my fault. When you come up with something that pulls paintballs out of the air, call me, I have beachfront property in Denver to sell you.

Another misunderstanding, i did not mean accidental overshooting, i meant malicious overshooting (what i call bonus balling) it is unsportsman like in rec ball.

now if someone is accidentally lit up with a large number of breaks, that player will recieve a verbal warning.

You must not like to play at safe fields, there has never been any kind of injury or ill event happen while i was on the field. I run a tight shift.
but again, its recball, i uphold three main rules: play safe, be good sportsmen, and have fun. all of the other rules will fit under one of those.

THAT IS THE STUPIDEST THING I'VE EVER HEARD! You are telling me that instead of me giving you 2 extra balls and getting the elimination to win a game, I should just put 1 on you and have it bounce? Another thing is that you may be honest, but most players are not. You shot them, but they wipe it. Also, and I don't know about you, but I rarely see someone call a paintcheck on themself.

no, im saying that i dont generally give the other person a chance to lay more than a couple on me before i duck behind cover. if i know it broke i'll call myself out, if i am not sure, then i'll call a ref over. its what they are for.
most tourney players arent honest? or most rec players arent? because in all my years of playing and reffing, i do not see many dishonest players (in rec ball) even though rec ballers make up probably 80% of the paintballing population.

I may not wipe, but maybe my teammate does

so if your teammate wipes and you see them, you wont say anything? that in my mind is almost worse than wiping itself
if anyone on any of my teams had been caught cheating then they'd be off the team. I do not tolerate it. if I see someone wipe on my team, I tell them flat out, that wiping is not acceptable and they have two choices, they can take the walk, or I'll call an on duty ref to take care of things. They almost always take the walk.

people may wipe headshots, but i was refering to a goggle shot, much harder to wipe clean.
i suppose the most we can do at this point is agree to disagree. Since you dont play much rec ball, and i dont play much tournament ball, we both seem to be clashing on the differences in playing style between the two aspects of this sport.

I play to have fun, i dont play to win. winning is just an extra in my mind. I think if more players (both rec and tourney) had that in their minds, cheating would go down. maybe.

what ever happened to tournaments being about playing skill? if they were still people wouldnt feel the need to cheat.

i suppose its a good thing i dont play tournaments. I think id have a brain aneurysm.

[bunkermaster10]

Usually when I get bonused balled I only feel like the first 2 shots maybe, out of the five, because I get hit and I'm like DAMN WTF $*&*$SCREWU*$$*U (I get pissed when I get shot out usually :)) and don't feel the pain after, so I hardly notice.

But there is no such thing as bonus balling really for me because I keep shooting untill they raise there hand or I hear them yell I'm out clearly.

[SyntaxError]

With my first big tourney team, they put me through kind of a reconstruction of my playing, and one of the things stressed was that you ALWAYS send a few extra balls over there.

As a result of that, I will shoot you until you turn your back to walk off, then I'll stop.

I don't like getting bonused either but it happens in tourney play, because teams do it as force of necessity due to all the wiping and playing on. Its the jerks in the sport who brought this on, now they can take the paint back.

[Digits]

Originally posted by epterry
The only time I was rather ticked off was when I had my back turned a guy flanked me and somehow I had 5-6 brakes and a couple more bounce. Nether of us was moving and this was in rec game with a bunch of first timers. I had been in the same situation earlier that day and had hit the person once in the bottom of the shoe, while being ready to shoot again if that one bounced/missed. If someone is running I must admit I will shoot until I see one break. Unfortunately, a couple more may be on the way.

You should run to the deadbox if your still getting shot at.. Chances are none of them heard the ref call you out.. I know I don't hear much when playing in tourny's as im so concentrated on the oponents..

It is a little excessive though if you were in plain sight and just walking to the deadbox with your gun in the air.. They should have a bit of a brain and know that your hit

And I usually expect getting hit 5-10 times, anymore and thats getting a little high

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

Originally posted by BlueFish28 But why do you need to fire that much paint? its a waste of money. I am just as effective with my 2-3bps as some people are with there 12-13bps, there's just more space between my balls in the air. in rec ball, it just isnt necessary.

Exacty, there is more space inbetween the balls. people generally don't sustain a consistant rate of fire due to the fact that it is very hard to do so. I'm not saying that you can't be effective with a slower rate of fire, but it makes it much easier. And please, don't tell me I use ROF to compensate for skill. I've played with Shockers, tippmanns, spyders, and extremely slow mech cockers. I've owned a shocker and a tippmann, which were extremely slow (shocker probably hit around 7bps, tippmann around 4 or 5). I could still hang with those guns, but when I got my first matrix (this was a while back), it enhanced my game so much I can't begin to put it into words.

im sorry, i did not mean to imply that i blamed tournament players for rec ballers overshooting. Some local tournament teams practice during regular rec ball games, and if they newer players see that they are over shooting players, they may try to emulate that behavior. i suppose in this instance, they should be on seperate fields, but what do i know.

Ok, I didn't quite understand what you were saying at first. Yes I do agree with that. Overshooting in practice is unacceptable to a certain extent. 1 or 2 extra is ok, but 5+ i tend to get pissed during a practice. But yes, I do agree with that.

Another misunderstanding, i did not mean accidental overshooting, i meant malicious overshooting (what i call bonus balling) it is unsportsman like in rec ball.

Ahh, I thought you just pulled whenever you san more then 2 shots or whatever. Yes, overshooting should DEFIANTLY come with a penalty in rec ball. Tourney ball, that's a different story.

now if someone is accidentally lit up with a large number of breaks, that player will recieve a verbal warning.

I agree with that.

You must not like to play at safe fields, there has never been any kind of injury or ill event happen while i was on the field. I run a tight shift.
but again, its recball, i uphold three main rules: play safe, be good sportsmen, and have fun. all of the other rules will fit under one of those.

I never had any injury or heard of any injury at the field where I play besides one guy dislocating his kneecap b/c he tripped while running on the field. I do not take pleasure in overshooting other players, nor do I like to get overshot, but if I have to do it, I'll do it. There are too many cheaters out there. I'd rather be safe then sorry.

most tourney players arent honest? or most rec players arent? because in all my years of playing and reffing, i do not see many dishonest players (in rec ball) even though rec ballers make up probably 80% of the paintballing population.

Players in general are dishonest. Most people in the world are dishonest. Mostly tourney players are the ones cheating, but it does happen all the time in rec ball too.

so if your teammate wipes and you see them, you wont say anything? that in my mind is almost worse than wiping itself
if anyone on any of my teams had been caught cheating then they'd be off the team. I do not tolerate it. if I see someone wipe on my team, I tell them flat out, that wiping is not acceptable and they have two choices, they can take the walk, or I'll call an on duty ref to take care of things. They almost always take the walk.

I'm not proud of having teammates that wipe (most of them don't, only 2 or 3 of them), but that is their buisness. As long as they don't get caught, I'm fine with it. I am not the team captain, it is not my duty to correct them. If that is how they choose to ball, then they can do it. I would never tell a ref one of my own players was wiping, it would probably cost us the tourny, or at least a game. Wiping is a practice that needs to be stopped, but it is a part of the game, unfortunately. Don't come back and tell me that its not, if you mainly play recball,then it is a whole different world. What is normal play for me may be unacceptable for you. Tourney players have to deal with wipers, overshooters, and bad tempers. It does disappoint me, but it has worked itself into the game, and until refs start giving a ****, I won't stop. (most refs really don't care, some refs will even wipe hits for you)

people may wipe headshots, but i was refering to a goggle shot, much harder to wipe clean.

Spray rain-x on your goggles, and the paint just slides off

I play to have fun, i dont play to win. winning is just an extra in my mind. I think if more players (both rec and tourney) had that in their minds, cheating would go down. maybe.

Again, words from a true rec player. Tournaments are fun, but winning is a large part of it. I don't think there is anything you can do to stop cheaters, they will always exist, weather it's wiping or modifying your gun to have trigger bounce or shoot hot, someone will always do it.

what ever happened to tournaments being about playing skill? if they were still people wouldnt feel the need to cheat.

Tournaments are about skill. I believe people have always cheated, this isn't anything new. As long as there is a winner and a loser, someone will cheat, weather it be for a prize or just bragging rights.

i suppose its a good thing i dont play tournaments. I think id have a brain aneurysm.

Watching a pro tourney is enough to give you one.

[NoFearPaintballer]

i personall make sure i hhit the opponet as much as i can in .5 second unless im bunkering them then i double tap it.and sometimes you acnt help giving someone 5-12 shots to the face... you see themyou want them out for someone like me i walk the trigger fast as i can.

all though if im PO'ed at you your gettin a full 16 bps for 1 second (16 shots on you) a little much no. i dont get pissed easy so if you get bonused balled by me its if you deserved or if it was a accident thats my oppinion