What is your favorite Legal & Illegal cheating technique?

[SlartyBartFast]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FallNAngel
[B]
Good, now what constitutes an obvious hit? 10.01 states:

Originally posted by FallNAngel
Just because he was hit does NOT mean he is required to stop and check. 10.02 - 10.06 deal with obvious hits which have broken. Just because you're hit with a paintball does not mean you have to stop to check it per

Once again, reread 10.05:

10.05. Players who are in motion while hit in obvious locations, which are easily verifiable, will immediately turn their motion away from the opposition, and stop.

Originally posted by FallNAngel
Well, as I said before, you wouldn't turn around and walk away just because you got a bounce. But if you did, those would be counted as an unobvious hit which is covered in 10.06 & 10.1

No, not IMEEDIATELY calling for verification of an hit in an obvious location (you felt the impact) but difficult to check (like on the back) is covered in 10.06 and is clearly penalised as playing on. So if you feel an impact, you should immediately either stop and check it yourself, or call on a teammate or referee to check it.

Failure to do either as called for in 10.05 or 10.06 should result in a one-for-one.

Unless you interpret the rules to deliberately use the obfuscation to your advantage.

Originally posted by FallNAngel
Actually, it'll be a one-for-one unless it gives the offending player's team an advantage which which case it's a 2 for one.

Yup. A one-for-one would result in TWO eliminations (or an elimination and a flag hang if insufficient numbers of players are left). As I said. The player playing-on and another player chosen by the ref.

[ogre55]

My favorite method for cheating is using a pumpgun, which we all know shoots farther, and the next favorite is Aiming, which causes a lot more of my shots to hit my opponents and break... the fact they can't hit me when they're spraying proves that I'm cheating somehow.

---Fred

Fred, Shhhhh.....

We don't want to give away ALL our secrets....

Ok you two, stop teasing the semis



Ogre

[Brophog]

Actually it does imply obvious hits. The way the rules are constructed is that sections 10.01 through 10.06 deal with obvious hits, while rules 10.11 through 10.13 deal with unobvious hits.

A technicality, sure, and something that needs to be more clarified.

[theraidenproject]

Let's just be realistic, if you feel a hit on the break, and you stop right there, you're going to get hit a lot more, and one of those WILL break, regardless if the initial hit was a bounce or not. So it's basically suicide. You get to the bunker, then you check. If you're hit you walk off. Whatever though, I play back, so I don't need to worry about it.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by Brophog
A technicality, sure, and something that needs to be more clarified.

It's one of those glaring technicalities that should have been delt with a long time ago.

But it does seem obvioud IMO that 10.05, 10.06 are designed to rule on how to deal with determining at what point "hits in obvious locations" become "obvious hits".

But another glaring contradiction to the general behaviour of tournament palyers is the attitude of "I'm in till the ref pulls me" is not supported in the rules.

While poorly written and full badly defined terms, they do clearly point to the obligation of the player to check themselves and call themselves out. Waiting for a ref to do it and/or failing to check if an impact was a bounce or a break, seem to both point to penalties.

The only defensible position supported by the rules is the case of an "unobvious hit" in an "unobvious location". In that case the rules clearly point out that it is not considered to be cause for a penalty until it becomes an "ovious hit" by declaration of a teammate or a ref.

(Now that's a cheat I'd let go under my radar. In a game I would NOT yell to one of my teammates that they are hit on the back of their pack.)

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by theraidenproject
Let's just be realistic, if you feel a hit on the break, and you stop right there, you're going to get hit a lot more, and one of those WILL break, regardless if the initial hit was a bounce or not. So it's basically suicide. You get to the bunker, then you check. If you're hit you walk off. Whatever though, I play back, so I don't need to worry about it.

While it may be realistic, it could easily be written into the rules for some way for a player to exit to check and then re-enter from the flagstation.

But 10.05 does seem to written with this in mind. If you turn, move away from the opponent and stop, it is OBVIOUSLY not a defensive or regular game move. After checking for breaks, the player can reinsert in the game.

Now how they do that with a stream of paint flying at their back, I don't know.

If the player only gets eliminated once reaching the bunker, the game has been changed irrevocably since the paintball broke. One team will have been held further back and the other will have advanced further than they are entitled to.

[FallNAngel]

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
Personally, as a technical writer by trade, I wouldn?t mind clarifying the rules a little.

I agree. The rules should be clearer on the definition of hit, obvious hit, etc.

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
No, not IMEEDIATELY calling for verification of an hit in an obvious location (you felt the impact) but difficult to check (like on the back) is covered in 10.06 and is clearly penalised as playing on. So if you feel an impact, you should immediately either stop and check it yourself, or call on a teammate or referee to check it.

You got me there. I was thinking it would be unobvious whether the paint broke or not, and thus fall into the unobvious category. Obvious and unobvious applies to where, not whether it broke.

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
Yup. A one-for-one would result in TWO eliminations (or an elimination and a flag hang if insufficient numbers of players are left). As I said. The player playing-on and another player chosen by the ref.

I had thought you meant two eliminations on the same team, not total, which is why I responded how I did.


Honestly, I think they really need to get someone to rewrite the rules clearer. Some are just too vague to interpret.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by FallNAngel
Honestly, I think they really need to get someone to rewrite the rules clearer. Some are just too vague to interpret.

Looks like we have more points in common than when we started this talk, doesn't it.

But I still won't condone tournament players interpretations of the rules.

Unfortunately I'd even say it's three strikes:
- Bad Rules
- Bad refs
- Bad attitudes

Now, I will volunteer my services to do a re-write. Regardless it's about time someone did something. The game has evolved A LOT since the rules were written.

Heck, the formatting and numbering of the rules doesn't even make any sense in parts.

As for presentation, it's about time there was a bookmarked PDF and a decent HTML version somewhere.

[Wierd-Guy]

Originally posted by Brophog


According to the NPPL ruleset, I would have to say yes.

Rule 10.01. Obvious hits are those which impact and break on easily observable places on the body or
equipment being carried or those that have been felt by the player

Rule 10.04. Players, who are hit in obvious locations, which are easily verifiable, by such players may not
call for a paint check. Calling for a paint check under such circumstances constitutes continuing play.

Rule 10.06. Players with obvious hits in areas which are not easily verifiable, such as the back, may continue
to play, but must immediately call on a teammate who can easily verify whether or not the paintball
broke to indicate whether or not such player was eliminated. The teammate must respond immediately,
and if the hit player was eliminated, he must cease play, signal his elimination and exit the field pursuant
to the provisions of this Section 10.0. Failure to call on such teammate for verification or failure of such
teammate to respond immediately constitutes playing on by the hit player. If no such teammate is
available for verification, such player may continue to play, but must immediately call for a paint check
by a field judge. Failure to call for such a paint check immediately will constitute playing on by such
player.

Rule 10.13. Should a player with an unobvious hit become aware, through his own actions or through
information provided by teammates, that he has been validly marked, such hit at such time shall then be
deemed to constitute and shall constitute an obvious hit.

While I agree that most of these rules are not enforced, this is from the NPPL 2003 rules, and I would clearly think that you cheated through your actions. On a side note, I see absolutely nothing in the rules about:

Thanks for clearing that up for me but what happens if you call for a paint check and the refs woun't come to you? It used to happen all the time with me.

[bokraham]

this probably works only with a classic valve. While chronoing hold down the trigger right untill it is time to shoot. when you do shoot do it really quickly. Doing this makes your shots on the field go much faster. so far I have always been caught for this. so far...

[Brophog]

Weird-Guy,

I don't know. While the spirit of the rules say that you should check yourself, ROF today makes it quite hazardous to your team for you to do so, without being shot again while checking yourself.

To me, if you call for the ref to come over and examine you, and he doesn't, I would think the responsibility would fall towards the ref. According to the rules though, the way they are currently written, it seems that you should check yourself, regardless of how hazardous that may be.

To me, this doesn't seem real possible in a tourney atmosphere though, considering the size of the bunkers, the size of the field, and the amount of paint in the air.

There's definitely room for changes in the rules and/or gameplay.

[FallNAngel]

Originally posted by bokraham
this probably works only with a classic valve. While chronoing hold down the trigger right untill it is time to shoot. when you do shoot do it really quickly. Doing this makes your shots on the field go much faster. so far I have always been caught for this. so far...

I thought that was how you were supposed to crono the marker anyway?

[tribalman]

Now, I will volunteer my services to do a re-write. Regardless it's about time someone did something. The game has evolved A LOT since the rules were written.

Heck, the formatting and numbering of the rules doesn't even make any sense in parts.

As for presentation, it's about time there was a bookmarked PDF and a decent HTML version somewhere.

i think this would really help out the sport a lot if there weren't the loopholes there are now. its just a game even if it is a tournament, but it's a lot more fun if you don't have to shoot 10 shots just to make sure 1 of them breaks and the refs see it and call the person out. i'll help out with this, but i don't have a place to post it other than on my comp..

[bokraham]

Originally posted by FallNAngel


I thought that was how you were supposed to crono the marker anyway?

no way. doing that makes it so that your on/off is closed, so that no more air can get in. Doing this makes it so there is not much to fire your shot, making the ball's speed much slower.

[Lohman446]

Not an attempt to cheat, but it was LOL - not complaining about it just found it amusing

So, one tournament it was COLD and raining. Towards the end of the season, and one team signed up for Rookie thought Rookie meant rookie... you all know what I mean on that, this was their first time playing

It comes down to one guy wearing a goose down jacket (cold, he had reason to). I hit him four times on the side, no break. Behind him now just shooting - no pack, and i was trying to take it easy on the guy and not just unload - it finally came to him bolting owarsd the flag and my back player goggign him - but I hit his jacket with several, ro a dozen aimed shots would not break.