Do we really need tourneys?

[coolcatpete]

If you take them away then you takes the pros away which is how companys make money then you get companys without as much money then no new technology then it all dies. It is the circle of life but just in paintball. Tourny players=high on the chain of life
Pete

[Mindflux]

Re: Do we really need tourneys?

Originally posted by gtrsi
All I began to think about is that, eventually, all of their costs must trickle down to consumers in the form of sales. (Why people whine and cry about AGD sponsership is beyond me.) Lets be honest here; tourney players are there to sell you the gear the promoters pay them to use.

Well, if this were true. Wouldn't Intimidators be more than Xmags? In fact, X-Mags are right up there with them in price. What ARE we paying for in our Mags? Well, Quality for one. But some would argue Intimidators are no less quality.

So, no they don't drive up the prices (clearly).

[verypoormagowner]

Tony1 isnt time to play in some cash prize tourneys now. If your team has one 3 place three times in a row its probally time to move on.

[Schnitzel]

i think of it this way...where would car technology be without auto races? or computers without faster and faster games? same thing applies with paintball...competition pushes the envelope of technology.

[tony3]

Originally posted by verypoormagowner
Tony1 isnt time to play in some cash prize tourneys now. If your team has one 3 place three times in a row its probally time to move on.

Yeah probably, but we choose to bask in our own glory.

[-=Squid=-]

Alright! I belong to 1% of the paintball populace! Thanks for letting me know with those statistical numbers!

More seriously... yes we need them. Some people like rec, some people want to do it in the spare time, others dont... pretty simple if you ask me.

[845]

And there are no flaring tempers in scenario games and rec games.

7. Teens have homework(just wanted to add that)

Dont you mean homeroom work?

[Tyger]

I'll have you know I'm interrupting a taco for this.

Tournaments will exist as long as a group of guys looks at another group of guys and says "My guys can kick your butt."

Tournaments have done good things for paintball. You wouldn't have inexpensive nitrogen tanks without them. They push the limits to help bring down prices of things. an $80 Spyder is SO superior to the (then) $350+ Tippman 68 Special it's not funny. Tournaments also pushed for C/A (not 12 gram), cheaper paint, better paint, and so on. Tournaments have helped push technology to make things more accessable. Heck, 5 years ago you NEVER could have dound an E-gun, let alone one under $150.

The down sides is that they've also pushed the game in a direction that a lot of us don't like. I'm not a fan of overshooting, speedball only, airball only, bright jerseys, debounce, and so on. But tournamnts do serve a purpose. I like to think of it as NASCAR to your car. A small widget or gadget that NASCAR expirements with may eventually end up in your personal vehicle (tire compounds, motor oils, engine layouts...). I just wish that the "high end competition" of paintball would detach from the rest of us having fun in the woods.

Where's my Tabasco sauce? Ahh... Tabasco Tacos....

-Tyger

[GT]

Originally posted by -=Squid=-
Thanks for letting me know with those statistical numbers!

I dont think you could process the amount of stats I coudl throw your way......


Good Post Tyger! You are on my short list of PB dudes I need to meet and play with someday.

jb-gT

[-=Squid=-]

Originally posted by gtrsi


I dont think you could process the amount of stats I coudl throw your way......

For some reason that made me laugh, absolutely, uncontrollable for about 2 minutes. The hilarity Yes, im being dead serious.

[Glickman]

ok. put it this way... if u didnt have tournies, think of who you wouldnt have... numerous players who are/or manufacturers. Lets face it, people are out there to make money, not that its not okay to have fun doing so, thats what keeps us alive. It seems like noone appreciates how redialy available paintball gear is nowadays. ontop of that, how far it has gone. that means no timmies, no matrix's, no dye, no odessey (halo), and no other guns and gear/companies. sure u can can do without them, but it would not last. The idea of becomming a tourntament champion, and how redialy available that title is in paintball, gets many new teams going, as well as new players.
Honestly, who would have thought only years ago that there would be paintball MAGAZINES?? huh? its amazing how far this lifestyle has came in such a short amount of time, and we owe part of that to tournys.
Just think, if there was only tippmanns, automags (nothing against them ) ect, how many people would wanna try out the sport (not counting the generic gun fanatics)

So think about it, paintball owes alot of gratitude to tourntaments, and alot of players today dont realize how far paintball has come in such a small amount of time. Yes, there was a time where i owned the top of the line Auto Ordinance Z-1 Semi, and it was the fastest, best gun out there (about 2-3 bps) and it costed about $500.
So dont not give tournies the respect they diserve, because thats the reason that we have turned paintball into a lifestyle, and not the generic camo, gun-slinging gun fanatic image.


-updated- GREAT topic btw, i think its one of the very few intellectual conversations we have had in a hwile

[raehl]

Originally posted by gtrsi
Good Post Tyger! You are on my short list of PB dudes I need to meet and play with someday.

Don't do it. He'll just take out his pump and embarass you.


Back onto the subject....

The NCPA has run a league for 4 years now with no prizes. Not a single one - except sportsmanship. And we sure as hell ain't local - we'll have teams paying big bucks to fly into Orlando in a month or so to play Nationals at Disney's Wide World of Sports, again for no prizes, other than being at the top of the rankings.

We do also keep the events themselves cheap though - $100/team and $35/case and up for the college and HS divisions.

For those of you who want to get in on the action, we'll have Rookie/Novice/Open divisions for everyone on Sunday starting at $300/team (5-man). At Disney.


Which is something else tournaments do for the sport - they put it places it would have never been without tournaments. Paintball at Disney or on Huntington Beach wouldn't happen without NPPL/PSP.

As for 1% of players being tournament players - I think that number is low. In college paintball, it's about 25%. It's certainly WAAAY more than 1% based on revenue - a lot more people who play paintball these days end up playing it semi-seriously, partially because it's not nearly as expensive as it used to be. Can you play a pump tournment for $12? Sure - but only because other tournaments with people shooting cases of paint per day have driven paint prices down to $0.02/ball from $0.25 or $0.50.


That's not to say that tournaments do it right all the time, but they'll figure it out. It's taken most sports 100 years to get where they are today.


- Chris

[lamby]

I just though of something else that adds to this debate.

I wonder if alot of this seperation of tournament/rec ball players is based on age. I do not have the statistics, but I have noticed that most (I would say 90%) of the national level tourney players are between the ages of 18-35, while most rec ballers are MUCH younger (12-16).

I think that alot of this seperation comes with age when you dont find it as entertaining to crawl around in the woods and be "sneaky". I was there in my younger day. I played with BB guns, and not paintballs though...

At some point you realize that there is a compitition that you can play in that is fun and you are decent at. All I can do well in now is bowling, playing softball, and playing paintball. The days of me playing competitive football, motocross, baseball are over. I got too old, to out of shape, too slow, and too breakable to play these anymore.

It is just an idea, but I think that it is more of an age thing then a defferent style thing. I also think alot of the rec ballers are only rec ballers because: 1) they cant make a team 2) they can't afford to be on a team or 3) they are too young to travel with a team.. I will not allow 12-17 year olds to be on my team as we are not a good influence at all and it is too much paper work..

Think about it for a moment before you post.

[Glickman]

90% of the national level tourney players are between the ages of 18-35, while most rec ballers are MUCH younger (12-16).

well, first of all, theres only really a big difference in maturity, and actually most of the tourny players around cousins are around 15-40 i also know a few that play beyond 40. But age doesntreally have much to do with anything, while you cant really expect immiture young kids to be able to play an organized tourntament, ive seen a few exceptions, including a 13 year old who plays with bada bing, a very good team.

*balances ontop of pod pyramid*
so, all ye that appreciate your gunsth, must giveth thanksth toth theth tourny'sth.

[Digits]

Re: Do we really need tourneys?

Originally posted by gtrsi
I had this question blaze through my mind today like a dart. I guess the pertinent question is what does tournament paintball do for the sport? I wonder how much of your next new gun purchase is spent on product than advertising. I read more and more about tournament teams spending more and more on exotic tourneys, greater amount of paint shot, increased number of tourneys played. All I began to think about is that, eventually, all of their costs must trickle down to consumers in the form of sales. (Why people whine and cry about AGD sponsership is beyond me.) Lets be honest here; tourney players are there to sell you the gear the promoters pay them to use.

Does anyone else find it a tad ironic that companies spend millions with marketing and outreach to sell a gun to you, the consumers, that will never be used in the way it was advertised? Take a minute to think about this: every tourney has a few factory techs there to insure that all the team’s guns are working flawlessly. So as a consumer do you have an army of people to make sure that your gun is in tip top shape? Its similar to auto racing. You see the cars win on Sunday, you buy on Monday (or whatever the saying is). The only problem is 99% of us don’t play tourneys. The even more ironic part is the 1%, whom think they drive the industry, look down on those 99% as not true pballers.

Do professional players act professional? More importantly do manufactures act in an ethical and professional manor? With a number of “cheater boards” Accusations one has to wonder what is going on?

Where are the “cheap” grass roots tourneys? Cheap entry fees and no prizes other than a trophy, true divisions, and professional reffs; every other sport has this why can’t paintball?

Just a few random thoughts……

1% ?? I highly doubt that.. And the only reason that would be true is because no one that rents usually plays tournies, and the majority of people that play pball rent.. But the people that actually OWN guns I bet the percentage on that who play tournies is ALOT higher.. Tourny players do drive the industry when it comes to gun sales.. Look at anyone who actually owns a pball gun.. It's either a spyder, or high end gun.. And the only reason people own spyders is because they are entry level players. So ya tourny players do drive the paintball industry for all of the higher end gun sales.. Not many people buy high end guns because of recball.

I, personally hate rec ball though.. It's boring IMO.. I really don't like running around searching for people and then never hitting them because there is so much bush...

Free tourny's would be alright, but it takes away IMO.. It just takes away from the desire to win if you have nothing to win..