Carbon Fiber

[nerobro]

Gtr, titanium is 2/3 the density of SS. Aluminum is 1/2 the density. IIRC.

A Titanium valve would be HEAVIER than the X-valve.

However, there is still a lot of material that could be removed from the AIR valve that would save and ounce or two.

And the inteliframe isn't light...

[GT]

Originally posted by nerobro
Gtr, titanium is 2/3 the density of SS. Aluminum is 1/2 the density. IIRC.

Correct,
I was under the impression you could use less material with Ti, in essance it would have the same strength as the AL valve but weigh less because less material was used in its construction...

And the inteliframe isn't light

I know.... I have a whole chart of weights at the house. What about a Thermoplastic 2x frame instead of CF. I was under the impression that is what the stock AGD trigger was and not CF.

[nerobro]

You can, but there's a lot of material on the AIR you really can't remove without having to make the body custom, or shims to hold up what's there. And I think AL is better for pressure vessels... ti's failure mode is shrapnel free.

The stock mag frame is injection molded carbon fiber. That's why it's so strong.

Compare that to the thermoplastic WGP frames that like to break ;-)

I would like a carbon fiber mag .45 frame...

Something else to considder. Thereis such thing as "too light"

[LeatherPants]

Remember what we consider CF. Is just carbon weave and resin. There are tons of variations of this. CF hoods and such found on a typical Ricer Civic are the lowest forms. You ever notice all the small bubbles in the resin on these hoods? It's the same for the spoilers, shift knobs, wraps, dash kits etc.

Think of how these bubbles will effect your marker. Imagine trying to hone it and hitting one of these bubbles.

Dry carbon that you seen in F1 cars is a whole different ballgame as far as tolerences/strength/weight/PRICE.

[GT]

Originally posted by nerobro
Something else to considder. Thereis such thing as "too light"

that is kinda the point I am making. Dont tell anyone but I think the magic number is 2.5 lbs for an electro and alittle less than 2lbs for a mech, given the tank, hopper, and recpriocating mass...

[GT]

Originally posted by LeatherPants
CF hoods and such found on a typical Ricer Civic are the lowest forms.

depends on where you buy it from. Go to Fiber images website and view the vids. Those arnt cheap!

[LeatherPants]

Originally posted by gtrsi


depends on where you buy it from. Go to Fiber images website and view the vids. Those arnt cheap!

Yes I know Fiber Images work and still you have bubbles. Small but they are there. Not saying the hoods suck but just using the bubbles and an example for this topic.

[GT]

is that the difference bewteen regular ol CF and the vacum bagged?

[Chris42050]

Originally posted by gtrsi


that is kinda the point I am making. Dont tell anyone but I think the magic number is 2.5 lbs for an electro and alittle less than 2lbs for a mech, given the tank, hopper, and recpriocating mass...

A little birdy told me this. Interesting. Why do you think that a mech should be lighter than an E.

[nerobro]

Originally posted by LeatherPants
Remember what we consider CF. Is just carbon weave and resin. There are tons of variations of this. CF hoods and such found on a typical Ricer Civic are the lowest forms. You ever notice all the small bubbles in the resin on these hoods? It's the same for the spoilers, shift knobs, wraps, dash kits etc.

Think of how these bubbles will effect your marker. Imagine trying to hone it and hitting one of these bubbles.

Dry carbon that you seen in F1 cars is a whole different ballgame as far as tolerences/strength/weight/PRICE.

Well... not what "I" considder CF. Weave is the weakest form of layup for carbon fiber. unidirectional mat is what's usually used. But in the case of a mag body, weave would be best, because you don't need a high cloth to resin ratio, and actually more resin will make it look prettier!

As for bubbles, that's what proper layup is for. There is no honing needed becasue the body would be done on a mandrel, and the inside of the body would match the form of the mandrel. That's how the stiffi barrels are made. They do grind the outsides of the barrels though.

The layup used in F1 isn't "dry." What they ususally use is something called "prepreg" which is the cloth but it's already impregnated with the heat activating resin. We don't have the luxury of an autoclave, but we can come pretty darned close with an oven, a vaccum bag rig, and 2hr epoxy.

[GT]

Originally posted by Chris42050


A little birdy told me this. Interesting. Why do you think that a mech should be lighter than an E.

these were numbers that I feel confortable with. Very qualatitive data, maybe even at the nomonial level.

In anycase I find that some guns under the 2.5lbs can cause an off axis inbalance. If you view a gun at perfect rest, for me, I want the center of gravity at the trigger frame. There are number of reasons this is a good spot, and some that are not. typically when you are playing through out the day your weight changes, loss of AIR and loss of paint from the hopper. Problem is, lets say you have a gun with a signfgant amount of recoil, how signfgant I am unsure since I do not have a way to measure recoil, the weight of the entire rig is spread out on the ends of the axis, i.e. barrel hopper and tank. when full these are less effected by recoil, when empty, depending on what I call the "core" weight, this can change drastically.

Qualtitavly: you can equate timmies with "that cheap feeling" because they are just so light.

Also consider while snap shooting.... A rig with a higher "Core" value will come to rest much quicker, however, the engery used to place it into the approriate position is increased.

Lastly, I believe mech guns can run alittle lighter given that most mechs are held differently at the gripframe. also the trigger/player ergonomics are abit different and the forces that the player gives to the marker are higher given the trigger pull, on mechs, is heavier.


Finally 99.9% of players never analyze to this level, so for the most part it probally doesnt matter

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

Why a mag body out of CF? No offense or anything, but I doubt anyone would get much buisness from a mag. Now, a Matrix (note that no one has a completely unique body for the trix except for dye, but that is not really even a matrix since the bolt is different), an intimidator (already too light, but people will buy), or an angel, someone would buy a body. I know that if someone made a CF body for the matrix, I'd be first in line to buy one.

And for whoever said you can't color CF, look at the Ferrari F50 and the Enzo, both have bodies made from entirely carbon fiber, and you can get them in all colors, same with F1 cars.

[kauai_paintball]

About the kick that would happen from "too light", you could just make a delrin bolt with a carbon core. it would have EXTREMELY little kick and would be near frictionless if you oiled it. kick "problem" solved. a grip frame, a valve casing, and a delrinlv 10 bolt with a cf insidfe would cost MAYBE a hundred more, and then eliminate kick and also, because your using less hand muscle to hold the gun upright form the trigger frame, you also would allow for more focus of the trigger muscles, making trigger pull lighter. i read a pbreview of a cf timmy trigger, and all 10 out of 10. the bolt casing of cf would also reduce the back heavyness. so, youd have a gun with a really fast trigger pull, no kick, and no back heaviness.

[kauai_paintball]

Originally posted by RT pRo AuToMaG
Why a mag body out of CF? No offense or anything, but I doubt anyone would get much buisness from a mag. Now, a Matrix (note that no one has a completely unique body for the trix except for dye, but that is not really even a matrix since the bolt is different), an intimidator (already too light, but people will buy), or an angel, someone would buy a body. I know that if someone made a CF body for the matrix, I'd be first in line to buy one.

And for whoever said you can't color CF, look at the Ferrari F50 and the Enzo, both have bodies made from entirely carbon fiber, and you can get them in all colors, same with F1 cars.

well, because the mag bodies are relativly simple, mags would be great testers for the material. and then moving on to more complex applications.

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

True about how mag bodies are simple. If this gets done, I think it will be pretty amazing. Now, who is going to do this project? And how much?