WAY AROUND THE SP PROB...of course

[dwab3000]

we wouldnt need lawyers. See their patent restricts the SALE. If the case is we get sued whats the worst that happens. I have a room mate that is taking the bar in a week or so and from what i see he found nothing wrong with this. So by cutting down lawyer costs we wouldnt need all that much money. The thing that would cost the most is the re-designing of the agd store.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by dwab3000
...if sp gets their way they will be the only company....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



First of all, NPS, Dye and ICD have alrady signed agreements with SP, so we will defiantly have matrices, bushmasters, and intimidators as well as impulses and shockers.

ok i said if smart parts gets their way. re-read it. if you had a company though and you made a product then others made a product thats alike you wouldnt want them taking your buissness so youd drop down a patent on your productmaking so they would have to pay large amounts of money each time they sold a product. now people are buying your product because you can lower your prices. the other company is going out because they had to raise prices due to the fees they had to pay to your company. i hope this helps you because its what sp is trying to do ok. we will have those markers of course but the prices will have to raised greatly so they caqn compinsate for the fees they pay to sp. repeating myself sp has the power to now lower the prices of their markers. think about it. when i was a kid my mom started to buy multiple multi family homes. when she rented one out she looked for flaws in the other houses around it. she pointed out their prices were more and that we could always talk about the price as long as it stayed reasonable and niether one was going to be losing much more than expected. ofcourse with this strategy she sold much more houses then other people in the area. i grew up around buissness so dont welcome me ive been here. i read the whole sp patent showed my idea to my soon to be lawyer friend he agrees its a perfect way around. and as far as you said the x-mag was a problem with AGDE. no read all forums about the discontinue of the x/e -mag. almost everypost is a new fact about how sp is involved. i wonder why every store owner i talk to about it say it cause of sp.

[Dryden]

Originally posted by dwab3000
we wouldnt need lawyers.

Yes you would. Even a preventive action - such as asking the USPTO to audit the patent - would prompt a patent infringement claim from SP. Whether valid or not, you're going to court. Heck, you need a patent lawyer just to get the paperwork filed for the audit.

See their patent restricts the SALE.

No, patents apply to USE. You (or your room mate, or whoever) seems to have muddied copyright and patent law together. They are two distinct areas of intellectual property law, with different case law and history governing each.

Patent law exemptions really only apply to inventions of atomic energy and nuclear weapons. There are others, but I'm not going to detail every exception.

In 35 USC 273, Section (a) (2), it is explicitly stated:

"in the case of activities performed by a nonprofit research laboratory, or nonprofit entity such as a university, research center, or hospital, a use for which the public is the intended beneficiary shall be considered to be a use described in paragraph (1)"

where paragraph (a) (1) defines what commercial use is regarding infringement defenses, specifically:

"an actual arm's-length sale or other arm's-length commercial transfer of a useful end result"

Even if you're a non profit organization and you give a product away for the good of the public, it's still patent infringement. The legalese is so detailed as to even specifically mention that universities and hospitals are not exempt!!

As was already mentioned, patent law doesn't allow for FAIR USE.

What you mention in the thread lead IS valid, and actually has been done before, when applied to copyrights - but not to patents. AT&T used to give away Unix for free, provided you bought $10,000 worth of pre-paid technical support, back when the anti-trust settlement of 1954(?) barred AT&T from selling software.

If the case is we get sued whats the worst that happens.

Um ... fines, injunctions, jail.

So by cutting down lawyer costs we wouldnt need all that much money. The thing that would cost the most is the re-designing of the agd store.

I could redesign AGD's store in a weekend. Any fool with a computer can do e-commerce and web design. You're not going to find a patent attorney that cheap.

EDIT: Oh, and I should add one more thing to prove how monumentously difficult it is to invalidate a patent in court. From the same section (b) (4) of the same document (35 USC 273), regarding Defense to Infringement - Burden of Proof:

"A person asserting the defense under this section shall have the burden of establishing the defense by clear and convincing evidence."

So, the burden is on the defense. You have to explicitly detail, beyond a doubt, that you NEVER got the idea for an electro marker from not only SP, but any other company. You have to PROVE you or someone else 'invented' the concept of the modern e-marker to invalidate SP's patent claim, AND that the original inventor never sold rights to or was employed by SP.

Good luck.

[dmocratic]

Originally posted by dwab3000
we wouldnt need lawyers. See their patent restricts the SALE.

Wrong. From the USPTO web site:

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/whatis.htm

So, by law, you can't even make something for
your own personal use if it violates a patent
you do not own or license.

[EsPo]

Originally posted by personman
That hurt to read.
Add a bit more capitialization, correct grammer and sentence structure, punctuation, and putting it in paragraph form wouldn't hurt either.

Personman ALWAYS uses capitalization, correct grammer and sentence structure, puncuation, and correct paragraph form.

1337 isn't that easy on the eyes either.

[Chris42050]

If these hair-brained schemes could work, than companies would be using them. Simple answer is... there is no simple answer. Give it up. SP won this round. It's up to the makers of the paintball guns to win round 2. And I think most people in the paintball community are hoping they do.

[personman]

Originally posted by EsPo

Personman ALWAYS uses capitalization, correct grammer and sentence structure, puncuation, and correct paragraph form.

1337 isn't that easy on the eyes either.

I never said I did. However, when writing longarse explanations or stories or whatever, I try to make it READABLE.
Who says I use 1337?

[EsPo]

Originally posted by personman

I never said I did. However, when writing longarse explanations or stories or whatever, I try to make it READABLE.
Who says I use 1337?

Status of Personman: I AM 1336!!!!!!

My eyes hurt.

You shouldn't tell people to stop doing something if you do it yourself, hypocrite.


Having said that, I love you.

[Cryer]

[/thread]






...

...try this again...
[/thread]






...


[/thread][/thread][/thread][/thread][/thread] :o AAARG!!!

Why cant I do it like Cphilip does?!?!!

[personman]

Originally posted by EsPo

Status of Personman: I AM 1336!!!!!!

My eyes hurt.

You shouldn't tell people to stop doing something if you do it yourself, hypocrite.


Having said that, I love you.

Someone needs to send you back to kindergarden. 1336 DOES NOT EQUAL 1337.
And if your eyes hurt from reading a number, then you should most likely see an optometrist.

Sigh.
I may not have perfect grammer, but atleast people can read my posts.
I also am not sure if you can distinguish a command from a suggestion. Obviousally you read my post as a command. It was a suggestion. I can't very well command someone to do something over the internet. That doesn't work very well.
The least I ask of him is to stop using ... instead of .
Hell I dont even care. Just a friendly suggestion and I get jumped on by a few people.


I love you too EsPo. :o

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

we wouldnt need lawyers. See their patent restricts the SALE. If the case is we get sued whats the worst that happens. I have a room mate that is taking the bar in a week or so and from what i see he found nothing wrong with this. So by cutting down lawyer costs we wouldnt need all that much money. The thing that would cost the most is the re-designing of the agd store.

Yes, you do need lawyers or you might as well just bend over and take it up the...err...You would lose without lawyers, simple as that. If you roommate is just passing the bar exam, then I KNOW he doesn't have enough experience to deal with this case. Things don't always go by the textbook in the court room.
And web design is pretty easy. Looking at the AGD store, it would take a day or two to redesign the whole thing, nothing complex over there at all, just a straightforward, to the point store.

ok i said if smart parts gets their way. re-read it. if you had a company though and you made a product then others made a product thats alike you wouldnt want them taking your buissness so youd drop down a patent on your productmaking so they would have to pay large amounts of money each time they sold a product.

How about you re read my post? I said NPS, ICD, and Dye already have agreements with SP, so their prices would not raise, they would get lower from this point on. Dye Matrices are already dropping in price. And when I read past the second sentence in that part of the post, I don't understand one thing you said. What I think you were trying to say is that if a company makes a product and other companies make similar products that are similar, I wouldn't want them stealing my buisness so I'd ENFORCE a patent on my product so they would have to pay me per unit sold. As I said earlier, Dye, NPS and ICD have agreements with SP, so they are safe! I'm pretty sure that SP got a nice sum of money plus some comissions for each gun sold.

now people are buying your product because you can lower your prices. the other company is going out because they had to raise prices due to the fees they had to pay to your company. i hope this helps you because its what sp is trying to do ok. we will have those markers of course but the prices will have to raised greatly so they caqn compinsate for the fees they pay to sp. repeating myself sp has the power to now lower the prices of their markers. think about it. when i was a kid my mom started to buy multiple multi family homes. when she rented one out she looked for flaws in the other houses around it. she pointed out their prices were more and that we could always talk about the price as long as it stayed reasonable and niether one was going to be losing much more than expected. ofcourse with this strategy she sold much more houses then other people in the area. i grew up around buissness so dont welcome me ive been here. i read the whole sp patent showed my idea to my soon to be lawyer friend he agrees its a perfect way around. and as far as you said the x-mag was a problem with AGDE. no read all forums about the discontinue of the x/e -mag. almost everypost is a new fact about how sp is involved. i wonder why every store owner i talk to about it say it cause of sp.

I really don't care what your mom did, that does not give you and ounce of credibility. Most of the things you have said will not work at all. Matrix prices have gone down since the agreement was signed, Intimidator prices, I dont know, and ICD prices have slightly increased, but not by much (or I think they did anyway, not too sure).
As far as AGD discontinuing the emag, how about YOU go back and read some post around here? The Emag IS being discontinued because Tom felt the technology was outdated. The Xmag was stopped because AGDe is working on some other project, and it wasn't on top of their prioritys or something like that. Most store owners don't know crap. I spend probably about 54 hours per week on AO and PBN (yes, I have no life), and probably know more about current issues in paintball than most store owners. Most people outside the paintball forums have no idea what's going on with SP and everything else.

ANYWAY, what I'm really trying to say is that if SP's case held no credibility, large companies like Dye and NPS would have fought them. I know that they have enough resources to do so. Appearently they hold some ground with their patent. Dye and NPS didn't just decide oh, lets pay X amount of money to Smart Parts because they claimed to have a patent that we infringed. They most definately consulted lawyers before making their decision.

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

Oh, and just for the record, here is Tom's post on why the Xmag and Emag are discontinued:

I didn't answer because I am busy doing stuff tonight but I see that its going to cause a big ruckus if I dont.

Here is the short explanation. AGDE has taken a job to run the National Paintball Europe distribution center. They will still distribute our products but making bodies is not high on the list. They are machining the last of the extrusions so there will only be one more batch of about 50 xmags. Some people on the list will not get them, sorry I dont know what to say.

The Emag is going on 4 years old and is due for a complete revamp. We will be selling off the last of them (about 250) and discontinuing that product.

Now the bad news, with the current legal situations going on in paintball it is not strategicaly smart for us to invest in a new e-marker at this time. We are going to wait until the dust settles and see who comes out on top before we proceed with a new design.

We will work slowly on a new concept that will eliminate the large battery and charger, incorporate the ULT trigger system and completely new electronics. We don't expect to introduce this marker until 2005 if it makes sense to do so.

The point of all this is that we are making these decisions based on industry influences. Our customers have nothing to do with the products we do or don't develop these days. Think about it.

AGD

[Dryden]

You know, now that I think about it, I'm going to call you out on your roommate, your cousin Vinny, or whoever the heck you've been talking to who you claim is taking the BAR in a couple of weeks, since that's not possible.

The MBE is only offered on the last Wednesday of February and the last Wednesday of July, unless Connecticut does something bass ackwards.

I'm stealing Cryer's post ...

[/thread]

[yeahthatsme]

Originally posted by dwab3000
hey i am at least trying here nt2004...if sp gets their way they will be the only company....
btw i am not trying to save em myself.first of all thats not a good idea and it was to show tom kaye an idea how he could keep up on the production of x/e mags instead of canceling em..
if tom kaye can go through this way then it will help other companies save themselves...ok
and i will edit this saturday...im truly posting between classes...not enught true time

wow.... i respect you wanting to do something but atleast know what your talking about before you do. smart parts hasnt shut down any company, the one company they pressured for a hearing stopped production on their own. they already have deals signed with about 4 companies, so i dont see them being the only one.

[Chris42050]

like I said its up to the paintball companies to win round 2 and the hAIR trigger is a good start. We dont need electros to get speed and trigger ease in a paintball gun. And we dont need half arsed ideas to save paintball either. We just need innovation.