is a dye throttle tank worth buying?

[abunkerer]

my throttle preset let me down all year. problem one it leaked (very slowly) from a little relief hole in the reg, so I took it in and had it replaced (3 weeks) got it back and the recharge rate was really bad took it in and the output pressure was really low so the shop sent it back to dye again...(3 weeks later)Got it back and it still couldn't keep up with my LX emag!sent it in again(3 weeks later) as soon as I got to the shop I put it om my emag and pop/pop/pop chuff pop pop/pop chuf cough..still couldn't keep up. other tanks were able to cycle the gun like a pure energy and a worr gas preset.
The tank was sent away for almost as long as I had used it. and since I had it for 7 months the warranty expired, so dye would not reinburse me..luckily the pball shop is good enough to give me store credit...moral of the story: Some people have had problems with dye tanks.

[Skoad]

dye tank = not necessary

get 2 crossfires instead

[BlackVCG]

Two of my teammates have Crossfire 68ci/4.5K FL's and with 4.0 software, they're able to outshoot the tank. Also, once the tanks drop down to about 1.2K, they start chuffing more often in rapid fire.

Another teammate has a WorrGas and after fixing the initial problems, it has proved to be the best flowing preset I've seen.

I only use Flatlines myself, but if I had to buy a preset, it wouldn't be a Crossfire.

[logamus]

i have a worrgas and a centerflag. they both work fine for me.

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by BlackVCG
Two of my teammates have Crossfire 68ci/4.5K FL's and with 4.0 software, they're able to outshoot the tank. Also, once the tanks drop down to about 1.2K, they start chuffing more often in rapid fire.

I only use Flatlines myself, but if I had to buy a preset, it wouldn't be a Crossfire.

Two possibilities:
1. The tank reg is blue and they used a 450 PSI preset on a gun that requires high pressure.

2. Their regs were choking.

The Crossfire tanks are proven on digital pressure gauges to have the lowest drop in pressure between shots for both single and rapid fire, and also the fastest recharge rate.

The article Magman is referring puts the Crossfire head to head with a DYE throttle and Crossfire showed better results accross the board. I find it hard to believe the tanks with the fastest recharge and lowest drop in pressure were choking unless one of the two things listed above were the problem instead.

If you had said they were PMI instead of Crossfire tanks I would believe it.

[abunkerer]

NoSkillz: don't believe the hype.
pmi pure enery tanks recharge faster than crossfires, so do others.

[BlackVCG]

First of all, my teammates aren't idiots. They both have red reg 4.5K tanks.

Also, it's not just them that have the problem DukeofLawnChair on this forum has the same type of Crossfire tank and the exact same problems with his E-Mag.

Just because some magazine did a test doesn't make that test 100% accurate. I'd like to see multiple independent labs run tests on these tanks and then get a real statistical analysis of how presets perform.

Until then, I'll base my opinion on whether the tank can keep up in normal use on an E-Mag.

[No sKiLLz]

Ok, well let's just assume first of all that I am basing my opinion SOLELY on the article. I would like to know just how you can say the data from the graphs is innacurate. You're trying to argue the accuracy of a computerized pressure gauge. Either that, or you are implying the graphs are fabricated or altered. Which is it?

And PMI regs are some of the worst on the market. Call them up and ask them how many regs they repair compared to how many they sell.

Personally I am not so paranoid. You're so afraid of hype that anything "mainstream" immediately becomes the Devil. Go watch "The Waterboy" and get a perspective on your attitude.

[GT]

Originally posted by No sKiLLz
Ok, well let's just assume first of all that I am basing my opinion SOLELY on the article. I would like to know just how you can say the data from the graphs is innacurate. You're trying to argue the accuracy of a computerized pressure gauge. Either that, or you are implying the graphs are fabricated or altered. Which is it?

I am sure that a pb mag is so far removed from a peer reviewed journal; they shouldnt even rest on the same shelf. Furthermore just about every article I have read has been devoid of proper english let alone any intelligible data.

Noskillz,
guys like Black and myself are going to need mountains of data to arrive at a simple conculsion, such as tank A over B. I quick question of mine that pops up is, when was the guage last calibrated, were multiple guages used in the test, who ran the test, were they current with industry stanrdards, etc....?

To be perfectlty honest, I believe, that screw ins are so simliar in desgin that they all flow about the same, lp or hp. I think it really comes down to the quality of the materials used and thier construction. I think that is why you see some people praising one tank while that same tank, to another, is a complete piece of crap.

ATM:
do yourself a favor and save up for a nice adjustible. If you can find a flatline grab it up. My personal favorite is a Dynaflow. You can get them for about 350, new.

[atm743]

gtrsi: ya I wanted to get a flatline so I don’t have to worried about those darn pins in the red and ill have an on off reg but I don’t want to wait much to save up because I am starting to play and I don’t want to waste all of my time trying to save up for a tank when I could be playing. I never heard much about dye tanks that why I posted this thread and it helps allot because I am now leaning to get a crossfire but I am wondering about that recharge thing because my tank is a high output and before it broke and hen I first got it mine did the same thing. It starts to short stroke when it’s around 1000 psi. But my friend had a crossfire tank (dj89) and its a blue reg and I new that it was a low out put reg but the weird thing is he had it on a mag then a e-mag and it shoot fine. . Never shoot down on his e-mag when he had it. I think at this point that I am getting a crossfire now! I was going to get a pmi tank but I heard about some of their problems but I know two people that have them and there’s no problems with theirs. Well anyway I got my tank working for an hour then it started to leak again. I was adjusting my ult and it’s a beast now. It shoots as fast as I have the regular on/off on it but now a lighter pull. And when I was shooting it last night I had it shooting rapidly at 500 psi left in my tank! Then it stopped shooting at 300 and when I took of the tank it as leaking a little from the pin in the Wong place. I am thinking now to get a crossfire because the quality and the price. Im am staying with the 4500 but should I get a 70 ci stubby or get a long style 88?? Keep posting on your thoughts on tanks I am still thinking on want to do thanks so much on helping me

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by gtrsi


I am sure that a pb mag is so far removed from a peer reviewed journal; they shouldnt even rest on the same shelf. Furthermore just about every article I have read has been devoid of proper english let alone any intelligible data.

Noskillz,
guys like Black and myself are going to need mountains of data to arrive at a simple conculsion, such as tank A over B. I quick question of mine that pops up is, when was the guage last calibrated, were multiple guages used in the test, who ran the test, were they current with industry stanrdards, etc....?

To be perfectlty honest, I believe, that screw ins are so simliar in desgin that they all flow about the same, lp or hp. I think it really comes down to the quality of the materials used and thier construction. I think that is why you see some people praising one tank while that same tank, to another, is a complete piece of crap.

ATM:
do yourself a favor and save up for a nice adjustible. If you can find a flatline grab it up. My personal favorite is a Dynaflow. You can get them for about 350, new.

If they had only tested the Crossfire independently, then I would ask the same questions, but they reviewed at least 8-10 tanks in that article. So let's assume the calibration is off. Why would the gauge bias the crossfire tank? I admit, there are two critical assumptions here: that they are only using one digital pressure gauge for all the tanks and that all the testing is done within a reasonable short time frame. I think these are reasonable assumptions considering how expensive the equipment is, and also the fact that it would make no sense for them to have more than one, or to test them over a period of several months.

So under those assumptions, whatever errors in calibration there might be would effect ALL tanks, not just the crossfire.

And as far as articles being poorly written, it doesn't matter. It's the raw data on the graphs that shows the difference. Funny you should mention that, though, because the article concluded as saying the Evil Scion was the winner because of looks and adjustability vs. pure performance and price.

[abunkerer]

mainstream the devil? I own a throttle and am supporting PMI two of the most mainstream paintball products out there. I was saying that since I've owned a $$$ Throttle all I've had was problems and all I've heard since was that they are poor performers (from people who should know) and because I got burned I have done some tests on presets and have found that PMI tanks are very fast rechargers, (i was surprised) I currently use a worrgas preset(very fast). I also have tried centerflags hyperflows and they seem to keep up with an LXemag also.

[GT]

Originally posted by No sKiLLz

I think these are reasonable assumptions considering how expensive the equipment is, and also the fact that it would make no sense for them to have more than one, or to test them over a period of several months.

True, since we are looking for the difference, however there are a multitude of other questions I had off the cuff.

Expense or not the tech running this test has to have some kind of industry back ground or cert... Also where are the stats? if the rare data was provided lets see some stats to determine if there is a signifigant difference bewteen tanks.

It doesnt really matter most paintballers just want to know if it is a more "1337" tank or something like that..

[Duke of Lawnchair]

If you had said they were PMI instead of Crossfire tanks I would believe it.

No sKiLLz,

Funny that you should mention that as Martin's PMI PE 68/4500 bottle is the only preset that I've run into that HASN'T choked on a v4.0 Emag.

There was another board member, jtoothman25 I believe. He's experiencing the same problem with the same bottle setup as my previous Crossfire bottle. In fact, I believe that he is BlackVCG's teammate as they are both from Oregon.

In mechanical mode, the bottle ran like clockwork and I absolutely loved it. However, it just couldn't keep up with the faster rates of fire that is possible with the newer software. Since I shoot in e-mode and hardly ever use my mechanical 'mag I decided to sell off my extra equipment.

I just sold my Crossfire to another board member who is shooting an X-valved mechanical mag and he is pleased with it's performance.

Jim

[BagelBoy2004]

I would get a used AGD Flatline or for about $240 I would highly recommend the Nitro Duck X-Stream. It's made of Carbon Fiber (lightest tank on the market) and is a fully adjustable (100-900) psi screw in tank. This means you don't need a cradle for it.