is a dye throttle tank worth buying?

[atm743]

well i jest bought a crossfire 70 4500 stubby thanks for all of the help

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by Duke of Lawnchair


No sKiLLz,

Funny that you should mention that as Martin's PMI PE 68/4500 bottle is the only preset that I've run into that HASN'T choked on a v4.0 Emag.

There was another board member, jtoothman25 I believe. He's experiencing the same problem with the same bottle setup as my previous Crossfire bottle. In fact, I believe that he is BlackVCG's teammate as they are both from Oregon.

In mechanical mode, the bottle ran like clockwork and I absolutely loved it. However, it just couldn't keep up with the faster rates of fire that is possible with the newer software. Since I shoot in e-mode and hardly ever use my mechanical 'mag I decided to sell off my extra equipment.

I just sold my Crossfire to another board member who is shooting an X-valved mechanical mag and he is pleased with it's performance.

Jim

What makes the mag so special? I have people in this forum trying to argue with me about the recharge rate on the Crossfire reg, quoting personal experience instead of data, when I get to stare at a graph that tells me what I want to know. But rather than accepting lab data over personal experience, the claim is on this ONE gun, the mag, these crossfires don't work and should not be recommended for purchase. Help me understand this.

I can set my dwell to 24 and debounce to 1 on my NYX and rip an ungodly stream with no drop off. That's my personal experience with Crossfire. I had a PMI PE tank before, and as soon as they repaired the reg and sent it back to me I sold it. That's my personal experience with PMI. It doesn't mean crap. Measured data, even if under slightly questionable circumstances (which is their belief and not mine), I feel to be a much more reliable source of information.

[sneakyhacker420]

i've always been partial to my PMI tanks

good flow, no drop-off... and if your store has a certified PMI tech, they can take off the top half of the reg, and adjust the output pressure of it

[AcemanPB]

I have a Crossfire 68/4500 and a PMI 45/4500, both HP tanks. Neither of the two tanks gave me shootdown problems on my iR3. I usually shoot around 15-16 (as verified by sound graph) and never get shootdown until the tank is low. This is probably because of the iR3's lower operating pressure. I usually use the Crossfire on my mag with no problems, but it is mech mag not and E-mag.

[Duke of Lawnchair]

Originally posted by No sKiLLz


What makes the mag so special? I have people in this forum trying to argue with me about the recharge rate on the Crossfire reg, quoting personal experience instead of data, when I get to stare at a graph that tells me what I want to know. But rather than accepting lab data over personal experience, the claim is on this ONE gun, the mag, these crossfires don't work and should not be recommended for purchase. Help me understand this.

I can set my dwell to 24 and debounce to 1 on my NYX and rip an ungodly stream with no drop off. That's my personal experience with Crossfire. I had a PMI PE tank before, and as soon as they repaired the reg and sent it back to me I sold it. That's my personal experience with PMI. It doesn't mean crap. Measured data, even if under slightly questionable circumstances (which is their belief and not mine), I feel to be a much more reliable source of information.

Wasn't arguing with you on that one NOR was I arguing with you about recharge rates as I have not seen ANY sources whatsoever in regards to mfg-to-mfg or bottle-to-bottle data. Having this data is good, but as to whether people are claiming that the tests are skewed, well that is shooting from the hip. IF there was a solid, unwavering test plan and if test instrumentation remained the same, then I'd be hard pressed to say that the data is kosher. On the other hand, if the test circumstances were questionable, then the data is questionable. Instead I expressed my personal experiences. However, a fact is a fact. That "fact" just so happens to be that my Emag choked with MY Crossfire but not with MARTIN's PMI PE. That in itself can be summed up as "field data." Your experiences prove otherwise.

I have a lot of fluid mechanic folks out here @ work. It would be interesting if I could get them to run a few tests. Pending if I can get a good sample base of PMI PEs and Crossfire "reds".

Like I mentioned before, I do not have the data that you have at the ready. Out of curiosity, did they mention mean output pressure? It could just so happen that MY emag choked because the output was not as high as advertised. I say this as my emag exhibits the same characteristics when I drop the output pressure below ~850psi.

Unfortunately, most "internet" experiences are isolated cases and like you said "...doesn't mean crap." What most people do, like myself either "run what you brung" or find something that works.

Jim

[No sKiLLz]

Mean output pressure could be the problem. It says the measured output pressure prior to shot for the tested tank is 770. That being the case, the mag needs retuning before use with a crossfire.

The PE tank was tested at 840, and had the same numbers as the crossfire (14% drop in pressure, 10ms recovery time) however "the pressure oscillates and full recovery isn't achieved for another 20 ms".

The DYE Throttle has a 30% pressure drop and 173ms recovery time. That's a FAR cry from 10ms.

The rapid fire graph is the best one, because it shows the crossfire against a throttle on both an Eclipse cocker and DM4. On both, the rapid fire graphs, 25 cycles per second, the Throttle graph comes to sharp points, where the crossfire has plateaus. What this means is the Throttle reg is still rebounding when the next shot is fired while the crossfire recovers quickly enough to have down time before the next cycle.

I will see if I can scan it and have it hosted and the post a link.

[Duke of Lawnchair]

The DYE Throttle has a 30% pressure drop and 173ms recovery time. That's a FAR cry from 10ms.

OUCH!!!

Please do scan the data. If you can't host it up here, email me a copy as I would like to have it.

IF in fact the tested bottle had an output of ~770psi then that might have been suspect in my bottle as well.

Jim

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by Duke of Lawnchair


OUCH!!!

Please do scan the data. If you can't host it up here, email me a copy as I would like to have it.

IF in fact the tested bottle had an output of ~770psi then that might have been suspect in my bottle as well.

Jim

It makes sense what you and Martin experienced, considering the PE started at 840, and mags love more pressure. I just have to hook up my scanner, but I will have to get to it tomorrow.

[Duke of Lawnchair]

Originally posted by No sKiLLz


It makes sense what you and Martin experienced, considering the PE started at 840, and mags love more pressure. I just have to hook up my scanner, but I will have to get to it tomorrow.

Groovy.

Thanks a lot amigo.

Jim

[abunkerer]

anyone know if there's any way to get the output pressure of a preset crossfire increased?
Ive heard that it is possible, but only on certain regs.

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by abunkerer
anyone know if there's any way to get the output pressure of a preset crossfire increased?
Ive heard that it is possible, but only on certain regs.

Yeah. Take the spring out.

J/K!!! DON'T DO THAT!!!

[dj89]

take off the reg and buy a flat ilne lol

[abunkerer]

^ ha, I have enough tanks...don't need anyomre. but If I could increase the output on my crossfire (or have someone do it for me) I'd be happy. although I might get an armageddon, those seem nice since flatlines are being d/c'd