Dye should go scenario...

[shartley]

Originally posted by TeamNausea
Very good info in that post havok. Thanks it actually puts this whole discussion (about the money) in clear view!

[Brophog]

Very true. That probably has more to do with scenario players not paying $50 for a pair of gloves and $120 for a pair of pants.

Not yet atleast.....

[p8ntball72]

thank you shartley,its like you read my mind.

[Tyger]

didn't Dave once say that DYE's goal was to bring paintball "out of the woods" with thier clothing lines? In Facfull or some place like that?

I haven't seen a Facefull Mag really, so I'm not sure.

-Tyger

[JEDI]

Originally posted by xXHavokXx


I hear alot of people saying this, but I dont see how this can be. I understand that more people play scenario paintball, but some of the scenario guys that I talk to say they only play a couple times per month, and use less paint. Tourney guys in our area play at least 4x a month, shoot 2 cases per day and constantly want the latest and greatest gear. Ive seen people keep at least 3 jerseys in rotation, 3 pairs of pants as well. And now with Xball gaining intrest people are keeping multiple setups ready, ie 2 angels, or a timmy and a trix , or an angel and a trix, so if somethign goes down or they need to swap in 2 minutes they just swap completely.


From my store's point of view tourney guys are where the money is, we have one team that averages about 50 cases a month from us, where as the scenario guys we deal with in total buy maybe 12

See, I have to agree with you, and disagree with Shartley. I'll use my team, and teams I frequently play with as my source for numbers.
This past week, we (deadcell) practiced 3 times. This is typical. We saw, give or take, the same 6 out of 10 teams practice along with us 3 times that week. The 6 of us on my team easily shot 20-30 cases of paint this week. So I'd say we own the paint market.

With all the demand on speed, tourney players own rediculously high tech equipment. That equals $$. I barely use my mechanical cocker any more. The disadvantage on the feild is just too great. Most tourney players I know, do have to have the latest and greatest. Some how I dont see your average wood baller running out and buying the newest board for their Halo B. Owning and maintaining several electros again = $$. Running your stamp molded 98 custom under water doesnt.

I would make a pretty strong guess that if you took your top rec baller, and your top tourney baller, and compared their gear, the tourney baller would have way more invested. Case in point: Why is the Tac One Mechanical? Thats not going to cost as much as your average Angel/Emag. I have yet to see a WGP E-VF tactical. Heck, I hate to generalize, but most rec-ballers I've seen have Tippmans, cockers, and Mags that really dont compete performance wise to an average $1000 tourney marker.

I dont believe that rec-ballers spend more than Tourney ballers. The market/avdertising just doesnt seem to suggest that. Number of perticipants does not necessarily mean more money spent.

I think DYE is happy with the way they (he) makes money, and doesnt feel the need to stretch the company into the rec scene.

[DragonMan]

Okay, I'm going to go out on a limb with this, but I'll take whatever flak comes down...
I used to be a tourney guy a number of years back but I've since been assimilated into the scenario world. In fact, its the ONLY paintball that I play now.
The thing that I like about scenario is that I can shoot as much or as little paint as I like. I can wear camo, DYE tourney-wear or can be practically be naked on the field and still have as much fun as the guy next to me.

The point is that it's all for the love of the game...The comraderie of being with friends for a weekend.

However I see the point that has been made that scenario players don't spend the dollars on paint and gear that other venues like tourney players do. If you look at it from that point of view, there are people in the industry that are losing money. Afterall. 50 cases of paint per team is a huge market and I don't begrudge xXHavokXx from making a living from that or supporting that line of thought. But you have to realize that so many scenario players are playing the game for the shear enjoyment of the game and will do so whether or not they have a corporate sponsor or not. Even those scenario teams that are sponsored still spend a lot of cash out of their own pocket just to play the game. So fundamentally I would have to say that scenario players put way more dollars into the paintball industry than other players do. Even if they aren't buying cases of paint for practice sessions.

But back to the original point of the thread...DYE can get into scenario paintball or not. It will be up to them. Regardless of what market they chose to enter, you can rest assured that there will be scenario players out there doing the thing that they do best. And that, my friends, is having fun!

Enjoy the game.
Thanks for listening to my rant.

[shartley]

Originally posted by JEDI

See, I have to agree with you, and disagree with Shartley. I'll use my team, and teams I frequently play with as my source for numbers.
This past week, we (deadcell) practiced 3 times. This is typical. We saw, give or take, the same 6 out of 10 teams practice along with us 3 times that week. The 6 of us on my team easily shot 20-30 cases of paint this week. So I'd say we own the paint market.

With all the demand on speed, tourney players own rediculously high tech equipment. That equals $$. I barely use my mechanical cocker any more. The disadvantage on the feild is just too great. Most tourney players I know, do have to have the latest and greatest. Some how I dont see your average wood baller running out and buying the newest board for their Halo B. Owning and maintaining several electros again = $$. Running your stamp molded 98 custom under water doesnt.

I would make a pretty strong guess that if you took your top rec baller, and your top tourney baller, and compared their gear, the tourney baller would have way more invested. Case in point: Why is the Tac One Mechanical? Thats not going to cost as much as your average Angel/Emag. I have yet to see a WGP E-VF tactical. Heck, I hate to generalize, but most rec-ballers I've seen have Tippmans, cockers, and Mags that really dont compete performance wise to an average $1000 tourney marker.

I dont believe that rec-ballers spend more than Tourney ballers. The market/avdertising just doesnt seem to suggest that. Number of perticipants does not necessarily mean more money spent.

I think DYE is happy with the way they (he) makes money, and doesnt feel the need to stretch the company into the rec scene.

[JEDI]

Originally posted by shartley

No, come on man. Through all my unclear babble you mixed up what I was saying.

I too played rec for many years. I clearly stated that I used my stile of play for a base for my opinions. I know a great deal about every aspect of paintball. I've reffed, played and organized many rec games. I, like DYE chose to come out of the woods.
I hate to generalize because its the first thing everyone picks out, and cries about.

I never said Tourney ballers make up more of the sport. I attempted to say rec ballers do, but that they're numbers dont equal the amout spent by T.B.ers

Right, you helped my point actually. Your average rec player uses lower end equip. So it takes two rec ballers to spend the same as one Tourney baller, when it comes to markers. The industry certainly isnt high end equip only. But 10 Tippmans wouldnt = the price of 3 Angels and a Halo hopper. Thats my point right there. DYE caters to tourney play, because in their eyes its more lucritive. There may be more "rec" prodcuts being used, but the price of tourney stuff tips the scales.
Your car scenario has nothing to do with what I said. You were mistaken that I believe Tourney ballers make up more of the sport. I didn't say that.

[Tyger]

Originally posted by JEDI

I would make a pretty strong guess that if you took your top rec baller, and your top tourney baller, and compared their gear, the tourney baller would have way more invested. Case in point: Why is the Tac One Mechanical? Thats not going to cost as much as your average Angel/Emag. I have yet to see a WGP E-VF tactical. Heck, I hate to generalize, but most rec-ballers I've seen have Tippmans, cockers, and Mags that really dont compete performance wise to an average $1000 tourney marker.

I could generalize all tournament players are egocentric cheating bastards who will sell their own grandmother to win tournaments too but that seems to upset some people, just as generalising rec players does.

I know a scenario player who uses a camouflage Angel. Why? He'll crawl into the worst of the worst, and find himself taking on 20-40 guys. So he needs to have firepower to bail himself out of situations, or to support his team in a long-range high-volume capacity. And the guy I'm thinking of is a guy who does NOT play in tournaments, just "scenario ball".

Rec players spend the money, they travel just as much, the dedicated "hardcore" scenario players have roughly the same number of players IMHO as the "hardcore" tournament scene. They just make different demands on their gear, and as such will buy what is suited for their needs. If they need firepower, they will BUY firepower, but scenario / rec players have different NEEDS than tournament players as far as paintguns go. So manufacturers will make gear that the players want and need (Tac-One, VF Tactical cocker) with features they want and use. This equates to DYE specifically on the grounds that jerseys will shread in the woods, so scenario players don't buy them.

DYE will, however, happily sell barrels to Tippman, Spyder and Cocker owners just as much as they will happily sell them to Timmy, Angel and Matrix owners. So, in a way, they already sell to the scenario scene. But never, EVER, judge someone's expirence based on their gear. I can show 'ya tons of kids with no expirence using the latest in gear, wearing the latest in clothing, and the slickest of goggles. Just as I am sure you can show me a player who's been playing for years who uses a 'Mag because it always works.

-Tyger

[xXHavokXx]

Much as Shartley said we are limited by our own views of the sport. Where I live, Northern California, seems to be a hot bed of tournament paintball. Alot of woods fields have closed, or aren't as popular as the newfangled speedball fields that are popping up every where. So thats where I get my personal experience.

Also I've noticed a blurring, people are including Rec players as scenario players. Alot of rec players here still get all dolled up in Dye, JT, and other gear just to beat around the fields with no intention of competing.

My store has been trying to find a way to catering to all the different types of players and still have yet to find a way to lure hardcore scenario ballers to the shop.

[SN0BL1ND]

Originally posted by Tyger


I know a scenario player who uses a camouflage Angel. Why? He'll crawl into the worst of the worst, and find himself taking on 20-40 guys. So he needs to have firepower to bail himself out of situations, or to support his team in a long-range high-volume capacity. And the guy I'm thinking of is a guy who does NOT play in tournaments, just "scenario ball".

Rec players spend the money, they travel just as much, the dedicated "hardcore" scenario players have roughly the same number of players IMHO as the "hardcore" tournament scene. They just make different demands on their gear, and as such will buy what is suited for their needs. If they need firepower, they will BUY firepower, but scenario / rec players have different NEEDS than tournament players as far as paintguns go.

-Tyger

Tyger (again) has hit it on the head! My team has about 6 Angels, 1-2 Matrix, 4-5 Impulses, a GhettoFab Shocker, E-Bladed cockers, and a couple I'm forgetting. We tend to get into stuff that our firepower is the only thing that gets us out of...

Jedi, I beg to differ...

This weekend I saw DM4's, '03 Shockers, Angel '04s, and a myriad of other high end guns. When the hardcore scenario players step onto the field, the only difference in most cases is the selection of clothing. I may even put on my Wicked Mpulse dust colored jersey, and then you wouldn't know me from a tournament 'baller....

I agree with Havok about what we see... I live in the Southeast where scenarios have taken a good, solid hold. We have as many scenario games as we have tournaments. I also agree about the blurring of lines. More accurately, there should be 3 hazy groupings instead of the 2 common ones; scenario / recreational / tournament.

[xXHavokXx]

When i play scenario im gonna have two set ups. My trix, halo and tank in one hand and my angel, halo and other tank on a sling on my back..... Ill finally live my rambo fantasies

[hotrod]

This discussion is both interesting and amusing, but this part has been bugging me since I read it:

I doubt you'll ever see a camo print from Dye, just look at where it all starts (e.g. DYE = Dave Youngblood Enterprises). Have you ever seen Youngblood wear camo? Maybe they'll offer tailored suits or something someday, but not camo.

So, check out one of the old posts, about 2/3 down the page:
http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...threadid=98615:)

[Dryden]

hotrod, you just proved my point. I know ... I know, there's a picture of Youngblood wearing TigerStripe on the cover of APG - holding a Carter, I had that issue, and I had that marker, just not in all stainless.

But you should look at that picture closer.

White tux top ... white bow tie ... double breasted jacket. I don't give a damn where you bought your camo - show me a double breasted tuxedo top in TigerStripe!

The cover was a joke. Apparently you didn't get the punchline.

[Tyger]

Originally posted by Dryden
show me a double breasted tuxedo top in TigerStripe!

The cover was a joke. Apparently you didn't get the punchline.

No, the suit is real! (No 4-1 joke) It was made by Tiger Stripe Products for a little while for it's higher-profile players like Dave and Fred Schultz to wear at more "Formal" occasions. I think Hollywood has one in realtree too.

He doesn't PLAY in it, but he DOES have it.

-Tyger