Any word on the mill over at Logic?

[tyrion2323]

Well said.

[LockNLoad]

?

Hrmm...Negatory.

Ryan got my logic-framed mag to me extremely quickly, and he was in contact with me the whole time. My frame came in perfect condition and working wonderfully. Of course, I knew that a custom-made vert frame wouldn't be an immediate turn-around. Unlike some dealers here, Ryan doesn't mass-produce his stuff. He takes the order and custom-mills each piece for the customer. You can get whatever color you'd like, and he'll even dye your grip. He's also not a marketing-oriented guy like some dealers here. He doesn't push his products, and he's certainly not rude or snitty.

But, then again, some of us don't care if it takes a week longer when we know that we're getting the best. And no, I'm not too scared to say anything. In fact, it took me longer to decide what I wanted than for Ryan to get the mag to me.

Do you actually know what you are talking about, or are you just brown-nosing?

Of course he mass-produces them.

[CoolHand]

Do you actually know what you are talking about, or are you just brown-nosing?

Of course he mass-produces them.

That's of course depends on your definition of "Mass Production"

When AGD has stuff made, its done in hundreds of pieces per batch.

When I do a batch of parts, its 15-25, at least an order of magnitude difference.

And lay off the guy, he bought a frame from me when we really were doing them as people ordered them. The demand has grown, so the production methods have followed suit.

I love how people automatically assume that mass production = no work, I just come in to the shop in the morning, turn on the lights, and parts just start to fly out of the machine, with me just having to pick them up and stack them in their boxes. That's not how it works, no matter how much I would like that to be the case.

If anything, mass production = more work, and a whole lot more money on the line.

I have a distinct feeling that most (if not all) of you guys who are on my case, are WAY out of your depths when it comes to anything even remotely related to manufacturing, yet you continue to snipe and dig as though you knew EXACTLY what needed to happen behind the scenes.

Please give the back seat keyboarding a rest, you're giving me a headache.

[dansim]

do you even know what your talking about? i belive he is far from mass producing them if he was he wouldnt have such a turn around time as there would be many machines doing many grips at anyone givin time, now back under that rock you crawled out from

[GT]

I have a distinct feeling that most (if not all) of you guys who are on my case, are WAY out of your depths when it comes to anything even remotely related to manufacturing, yet you continue to snipe and dig as though you knew EXACTLY what needed to happen behind the scenes.

Please give the back seat keyboarding a rest, you're giving me a headache.

Get'm Ryan!

This, unfortunately, is the bad side of AO. DO you guys think that other people on AO would love to produce their own product, and become discouraged by some of the posts in this thread?

Stuff happens, deal with it. Would you rather wait 3-4 months for a custom grip frame or not have one at all?

You guys need to get off your high horse and contact Ryan DIRECTLY if you want something done. He is a standup guy and a great dealer.

AO is very fortunate to have people like this making products FOR US, at what I can guess is only minimal profit given the time they spend on developing a product that has to have such high tolerances.

How many other owners groups have their own dealership network. N=1, AO


GT

[Dryden]

Against my better judgement, I'm going to wade into this quagmire and pitch in my two cents.

I don't know Ryan, but I think it would be in everyone's best interest to cut him a little slack. As he stated, he made a couple of errors in judgement in the past of selling products he hadn't yet milled, and he's taken measures to correct that. Purchasers whose items were delayed were offered the opportunity at a refund and an explanation for the problem, it wasn't as if CoolHand scammed hundreds of AO users for tens of thousands of dollars and fled, so don't treat him as such. Unfortunately, the Internet being what it is, his less successful transactions are just as public as the successful ones - and of course, anyone who has ever run their own business knows that the unhappy customers are 10x more vocal than the content ones.

In particular, I'm appalled at the number of individuals who seem to stalk AO vendors around and post "Do Not Buy" warnings in every thread the vendor has contributed to.

In any event, it doesn't do anyone any amount of good to prematurely voice their complaints or simply parrot others' complaints to this forum. If you were a party to the transaction, than you have a legitimate case to state your opinion in the appropriate forum. If not, then remember what momma always told you, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

Derivisive comments regarding ANY AO vendor, whether it's Ryan, Shawn, Sam, Tuna, Doc, Colin and even AGD itself (himself?), don't help. Production problems do occur. Suppliers don't deliver parts on time. Machines do break down. Packages do actually get lost in the mail. Honest people do sometimes make mistakes. Whatever, it's a businesses reality, deal with it. I've never read a post by ANY of the vendors above promising next day delivery, or even 7 day delivery for that matter, so I don't understand what some customers expect or complain about when they order a custom product thats produced in limited quantity.

In fact, I really can't understand why some of these vendors don't just throw up their hands and scream "Screw It!" and just take their business over to PBN to make products for Timmies.

What I can say, without question and with authority, is that since about 2002, the number of aftermarket accessories and choices available to me for my Automag has darn near quadrupled. When I bought my first Mag, my choices were beadblast or polished, Mini or Classic, Crownpoint or nothing, and Powerfeed or Standard. That's about it. Thanks to the vendors above, plus a half dozen other companies over the last 10+ years, I've got choices now. Hundreds of choices.

Lay off. If I lose the choice between a Logic frame or a Rogue frame because some inconsiderate posts here induced Ryan or Shawn to give up, you'll be hearing from me as well as - I think - the bulk of the rationally thinking AO Army.

Every vendor I listed above, and many others on this forum who I didn't explicitly name, either have had, currently have, or will eventually have problems meeting the demand for their products. This my friends, isn't a bad thing!!!

I'm all for constructive criticism, but this thread has hardly been constructive.

- Rich B

[tyrion2323]

Do you actually know what you are talking about, or are you just brown-nosing?

Of course he mass-produces them.

So I'm just brown-nosing when I stand up to criticism about a good dealer? If people have a problem with Ryan's work, then email him. Don't bring it to the forums and tarnish his good name. He does phenomenal work. I don't think that I'm "brown-nosing" when I state that.

When I state that he doesn't mass-produce his pieces, I mean that he doesn't pump 'em out and then sell them. Some dealers here offer their products in only a single or a few choices of color. Ryan will anodize your frame to any color if you want. So yes, it takes more time than, say, buying a rogue rail or something. That isn't saying that Rogue's stuff isn't good (from what I hear, it's great), it's just a different type of production.

So lay off Logic, unless you decide to buy a mill and pump out your own vert frame....

[Mossman]

I can vouch for Ryan, his stuff rocks and is well worth the wait, and if he says your stuff will be done on tuesday and ship wednesday, it will. If you don't wanna wait 2 months for that wednesday to come then you don't deserve his super hot custom stuff...that's all

[logamus]

ryan's vert frame is fantastic and worth whatever wait. ryan, keep your chin up, people female dogged about agd taking so long on the xmag too, but most agree that it is certainly worth the wait.

[punkncat]

Thanks for the word Ryan. I really am in no hurry and I am glad that you are aware that I am willing to wait as long as it takes you. I have worked in production with a mill. I realize that issues come up , tools go down , and things that are good are worth waiting for.
To all the naysayers....yall know where y'all can take that crap...over to PBN or something. This post wasn't about slamming Logic , it was just to satisfy my curiosity.
Once again , thanks Ryan , you have my support and patience. Thanks a bunch.

[Z-man]

I was very satisfied with Ryan's work. And if I had to say anything I would suggest that there are 2 camps on AO and one of them is looking for a fight...

If you want to attack a guys integrity, at least have the decency to PM him your thoughts and not publicly make rude comments. It's not the AO I come to read about.

[the larch]

hmm,
Not to be flamed or such, but, a forum is a place were opinions, (both sides) are allowed. Looking back on this thread, I don't see anything particularly ugly being directed at Logic. He himself, has said that he is changing how he does work because of past problems. He HAS had them. He acknowledges this. People who have had to wait past several deadlines are quite justified to inform people about their experiences.
Good and bad experiences should be posted on forums like this. In this format, people who are new to custom work, may learn what is involved, and the waits they may expect.

Consider that next time you order a pizza delivery that:
1. It is made absolutely custom to your order.
2. There are several inventory items required to make it
3. There are several machines necessary to get it to your door.
4. It has to be brought through uncertain traffic to get to you.
5. There are several other custom orders awaiting their delivery to other customers just as important as you

Taking all this into account, it is still NOT ok with you if it takes 3 times longer than you were quoted to arrive. If the pizza took that long, even if it is the best in the market, you are justified in telling people it took three times longer to get to you.

BTW
Forum is defined as:
1. The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
2. A public meeting place for open discussion.
3. A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.
2. A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
3. A court of law; a tribunal.


A forum IS NOT a place were everyone agrees that everything is hunky dory all the time. It is a place for OPEN discussion.

[tyrion2323]

The only flame-comments that I see are the ones that state "people are too afraid" and the comment that I was "brown-nosing."

Just as people should be allowed to talk about negative experiences, so should we be allowed to voice positive ones...

[atm743]

to me i can wait a long time for custom made products. i love he's stuff i got one of his alpha rails and i love them. my frend got a logic frame and i like them to. i was think in getting one but i will do that after i get bored with my y. hes a very very great guy to do buissness with. every one makes mistakes soo dont get mad if his stuff is backed orders. to me you should wait for custom made stuff.! to me thats what makes it custom keep on making sum allsome parts ryan!!!!

[spacedtedybear]

I'm looking forward to the new frames. I think he should do something a little more special to the 8 that got left behind on that last batch. Like milling a doodle of an octopus giving you the finger 8 times somewhere on the frame. ( Yes thats from RvB). It's getting harder and harder to wait, seeing that my marker in pieces, and the fact that finals are almost over.