Any word on the mill over at Logic?

[GT]

hmm,

Consider that next time you order a pizza delivery that:

Wisky Tango Foxtrot, WTF are you talking about. CNC'ing custom made parts has little to do with pizzA. For one papa johns doesnt rely on single vendors, anno guys, to hold up on the tomato production or extra spicey cheese shipment. I think you fail to realize the complexity of the situation..

A forum IS NOT a place were everyone agrees that everything is hunky dory all the time. It is a place for OPEN discussion.

You bet,
however it must be truthful discussion. Hearing something from someone who heard it from someone else that happened at a field along time ago.... Is totaly different than first hand experience ( which I have with Logic).

Playing the invisible customer game makes it impossible for Logic to amend any ill will. Like I said before for the reading chanallenged : If you have a problem with the man take it up with the man

[the larch]

No, gtrsi, I certainly do understand the complexity of the process. My analogy points out the unseen complexity of something as simple as pizza delivery and how it is taken for granted.
Also, it is disturbing that you think that negative comments about a service are "untruthful" by the fact that they may be different than the experience you had. You assume the negative comments are at best second hand, when you don't have any idea what experience the posters may have had with the vendor. You yourself, then, are guilty of taking second hand assumed information and posting negatively about it on an open forum.

BTW, please don't disparage pizza makers. :)

[CoolHand]

Consider that next time you order a pizza delivery that:
1. It is made absolutely custom to your order.
2. There are several inventory items required to make it
3. There are several machines necessary to get it to your door.
4. It has to be brought through uncertain traffic to get to you.
5. There are several other custom orders awaiting their delivery to other customers just as important as you

That would be a good analogy, if I were only ASSEMBLING things (like AGD for example), but since we start with barstock, and send finished parts out the door, you'd need to change it some.

1) You start with a pile of harvested wheat, which must be ground into flour.
2) We also have three hogs which have just been slaughtered, from which you must now make pepperoni and sausage.
3)We have a well, but you must install a pump before you can get any water out.
4)We have a garden with herbs and tomatoes, which you must harvest and turn into sauce.
5)You cannot start any of this until the customer places the order.
6)The customer still wants the pizza in 30 mins or less though.
7) Certain customers may order a personal pan pizza (cheapest thing on the menu), demand its delivery when they want it, and complain on a public forum when you could not deliver on time and refunded their money, while still delivering the pizza, and another pizza kit, so they could have another one when they got home.

You will then be criticised by hundreds of random people. You will have to defend yourself, and your pizza making skills, every day against some of the stupidest analogys you could ever concieve of, all the while trying to squeeze in some pizza making (if your oven isn't borken that is) and maintain a polite attitued.

I have spent more time trying to sooth your ruffled feathers over a $15 ano job than I ever have on a guy who was buying a $1300 marker. Get over yourself. You got your part back (ano'ed the color you wanted), you got your money back, and you got a new part to boot. I lost over a hundred dollars trying to satisfy you, but I will spend no more time or money.

You want to contine stalking me over a $15 transaction gone bad? Fine. Two can play that game. I will now follow you all around, and warn every person you try to do business with, that you are hot tempered, impossible to please, and arguably imbalanced. That'll be fun won't it?

[1stdeadeye]

You want to contine stalking me over a $15 transaction gone bad? Fine. Two can play that game. I will now follow you all around, and warn every person you try to do business with, that you are hot tempered, impossible to please, and arguably imbalanced. That'll be fun won't it?

Turn about is fair play!

[Digits]

I think you guys ned to do alittle more reading on AO. Even companies like AGD have set backs that are out of thier control.

when you are dealing with a custom shop expect a long wait, that is how it is.

If you dont want the best there is a spyder hanging on the wall of your local wal mart with your name on it....

kind of but not really..

Just because it's custom or slow doesn't mean it's the best there is.. Xmags.. Are allright guns.. But for the price you could have a DM4 or an alias.. IMO those are better guns.. But I guess its all personal preference.. But slow does not necisarelly mean better

[Dryden]

The pizza analogy doesn't equate to this forum in the fact that AO is also the storefront for the vendors. As I said, if you've had a transaction that you don't feel was handled appropriately, then fine, post your opinions in the feedback section. It isn't necessary to stalk AO vendors to every thread and repeat your opinions over and over again.

Using that pizza analogy, if Papa Johns does take an hour-and-a-half to deliver my pizza when I've been told it would only take 30 minutes, you bet I'm a little preturbed about it. And I might - just might - make an offhanded comment to my friends that Papa Johns was slow last Thursday. I do not however, drive over to Papa Johns, stand at the counter, and tell every customer who walks in to go to Dominos because Papa Johns always take three times as long as they promise to get an order out.

And for the record, my father owned a pizza shop for 15 years. I worked in it from the time I was 14 until I was 19, before moving to work in his liquor carry-out. Making a pie isn't anywhere near as difficult as milling a part. The analogy is asinine.

[AGDlover]

I do not however, drive over to Papa Johns, stand at the counter, and tell every customer who walks in to go to Dominos because Papa Johns always take three times as long as they promise to get an order out

ahahahahahahahahhaa

[the larch]

In actuality, I've never once mentioned your name in this thread in a hostile way.
Nor have I been aggressive. I have not threatened anyone in any way. I don't believe I have even mentioned any transaction that has happened between us either.
Anyone who feels Logic may be justified in his accusation that I am stalking him may feel free to look at my posts since I have joined, in this, or any other forum. I've never actively flamed anyone anywhere.
On the other hand, if a person posts in an OPEN forum asking for opinions other people have about a product, or a business, I CERTAINLY have a right to post an experience as long as it isn't openly hostile, or ugly, (ie. definition of forum.)
I apologize that I dared to compare the industry of pizza delivery with custom paintball work. Don't look down your nose at the pizza delivery business though. Doing it right is a little more complicated than you might appreciate.
BTW, here is my feedback thread:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1357177#post1357177

I link every transaction I have on AO to this. If you feel I have truly "stalked you" and am a horrible trader, Please feel free to post that. I personally have no problem with how I deal with every single transaction I make.
BTW, I notice you never posted a feedback thread of your own here. :)

[LockNLoad]

In actuality, I've never once mentioned your name in this thread in a hostile way.
Nor have I been aggressive. I have not threatened anyone in any way. I don't believe I have even mentioned any transaction that has happened between us either.
Anyone who feels Logic may be justified in his accusation that I am stalking him may feel free to look at my posts since I have joined, in this, or any other forum. I've never actively flamed anyone anywhere.
On the other hand, if a person posts in an OPEN forum asking for opinions other people have about a product, or a business, I CERTAINLY have a right to post an experience as long as it isn't openly hostile, or ugly, (ie. definition of forum.)
I apologize that I dared to compare the industry of pizza delivery with custom paintball work. Don't look down your nose at the pizza delivery business though. Doing it right is a little more complicated than you might appreciate.
BTW, here is my feedback thread:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1357177#post1357177

I link every transaction I have on AO to this. If you feel I have truly "stalked you" and am a horrible trader, Please feel free to post that. I personally have no problem with how I deal with every single transaction I make.
BTW, I notice you never posted a feedback thread of your own here. :)

You're not the only one Larch. It's too bad you are being singled out.

There was another post about almost this same thing a week ago started by "trex". If I could find it I would, but I think it was deleted somehow.

I guess anyone who has a bad experience is now a stalker.

[CoolHand]

. . . . . It's too bad you are being singled out. . . . . . . .

I am singling him out, because he was the worst case I have had to deal with.

The fellow TRex of which you spoke, got a little excited, and over reacted. We worked it out, and after he cooled off a little, he realized that, deleted his thread himself, and apologized to me. Our tangle ended well, for both of us, and we moved on.

What makes Larch outstanding is the fact that he still thinks his outrage and general abusivness was totally justified (as he has stated on more than one ocassion), and thusly continues to parrot the bad, while never telling people that I spent over a hundred bucks ($100+) trying to make him happy. I refunded his money, paid to have his part reano'ed (twice), then bought him a new one as well as returning the successfully (finally) colored original part. The only thing I had left to do was buy him a whole new marker (to make up for botched ano on a 15 deg ASA), which I doubt would have made any difference.

Not everyone is a stalker, just him. lol <--- This is a joke. In reality, anyone who disagrees with me is, in fact, a stalker.

[arsonpaintball06]

Just to put sum water on this fire........any clue when u will be gettin more vert frames in coolhand? (im sure its posted sumwhere, i looked.......but it was late and i was lazy lol ........so figured id just ask :)

P.S.

i dont mind waiting for a quality product.....unlike sum ( ehh so maybe i fed to the fire too a little bit)

[dansim]

That would be a good analogy, if I were only ASSEMBLING things (like AGD for example), but since we start with barstock, and send finished parts out the door, you'd need to change it some.

1) You start with a pile of harvested wheat, which must be ground into flour.
2) We also have three hogs which have just been slaughtered, from which you must now make pepperoni and sausage.
3)We have a well, but you must install a pump before you can get any water out.
4)We have a garden with herbs and tomatoes, which you must harvest and turn into sauce.
5)You cannot start any of this until the customer places the order.
6)The customer still wants the pizza in 30 mins or less though.
7) Certain customers may order a personal pan pizza (cheapest thing on the menu), demand its delivery when they want it, and complain on a public forum when you could not deliver on time and refunded their money, while still delivering the pizza, and another pizza kit, so they could have another one when they got home.

You will then be criticised by hundreds of random people. You will have to defend yourself, and your pizza making skills, every day against some of the stupidest analogys you could ever concieve of, all the while trying to squeeze in some pizza making (if your oven isn't borken that is) and maintain a polite attitued.

I have spent more time trying to sooth your ruffled feathers over a $15 ano job than I ever have on a guy who was buying a $1300 marker. Get over yourself. You got your part back (ano'ed the color you wanted), you got your money back, and you got a new part to boot. I lost over a hundred dollars trying to satisfy you, but I will spend no more time or money.

You want to contine stalking me over a $15 transaction gone bad? Fine. Two can play that game. I will now follow you all around, and warn every person you try to do business with, that you are hot tempered, impossible to please, and arguably imbalanced. That'll be fun won't it?

Larch i belvie coolhand just made you his b*tch

[dj89]

i have a milled rail and vert frame......




















and i love them the wait was werth it thats all i need to say keep up the great work man

[melster]

What is this? Several people gave their feedback as to their experiences with CH, and you guys are jumping on them and beating them up about it? No one here has called CH bad names or LIED about anything. So why are you trying to surpress them? I would think it was a GOOD thing for people to warn others of their own unsatisfactory experience.

Here's my experience:
Great product (vert frame), smooth as butter. Exacting tolerances, and no play whatsoever. However, the frame was a little too thick where the grip frame retaining screw in the trigger guard is. The original screw was too short to grip the ULE body. I had to use one of the drop screws CH provided to secure the frame to my rail/body.

As for the turn around time, I think it's all been said before. Logic Paintball is slooooooow. It doesn't mean you won't get it eventually or that CH is going to try and screw you. It means you'd better not hold your breath or sell off your existing frame hoping that you'll get it in a week. This problem goes away now that CH isn't selling the frames until they come in stock.

I never felt that I was in danger of being ripped off. However, I was frustrated with delays, and as a consumer, I feel that it's my right to ***** and complain about it. When I got my frame, I was ecstatic, but I would certainly think twice about ever purchasing it if I knew it would take so long.

Hence, if I had had the benefit of reading what some of these unsatisfied customers had to say, I would've saved myself time, money and aggravation. So I say: let these people speak! If you've done business with CH, then let your good opinions of his service come to the front as well. Don't try to be the opinion police.

[GT]

Also, it is disturbing that you think that negative comments about a service are "untruthful" by the fact that they may be different than the experience you had. You assume the negative comments are at best second hand, when you don't have any idea what experience the posters may have had with the vendor. You yourself, then, are guilty of taking second hand assumed information and posting negatively about it on an open forum.

Actually that is not true at all, I have done buisness with Ryan on a few times. The difference is that the negative comments I see posted, I think yours maybe the only one, are not statistaclly signfigant. Meaning that, I believe, the few bad experience people my have had, have little to do with the shop and more to do with the process of custom made parts.

kind of but not really..

Just because it's custom or slow doesn't mean it's the best there is.. Xmags.. Are allright guns.. But for the price you could have a DM4 or an alias.. IMO those are better guns.. But I guess its all personal preference.. But slow does not necisarelly mean better

I dont think that is entirly correct. I am not comparing X's to everything out there. I am comparing Ryan's product to what is availible for mags, thats the difference.

Lets not get into what is a better deal, hell for 250 bucks I could buy a used M98 w/ compressed air and not play all that differently than a 2k+ rig, and for that same 2-3k I could push a Honda into the 12's, but in reality 2k dollar paintball markers nor 12'sec hondas are practical or fiscaly responsible.


The point of my post is to stop crying about timllyness of custom products. IF you dont want to wait go to wal mart and buy a spyder