Do tournament players deserve preferential treatment at the field?

[GoatBoy]

Well with the current rift in the paintball scene, I got to thinking about things...


What do you guys think about preferential treatment for tournament players at paintball fields?

[zacbot]

whats with all this ranting about lately..

[Vanced]

Nope... They pay the same field fee.... Pay the same for field paint ... I have done both ... I don't expect to be treated any differntly ...

UNLESS I am member of the field sponsor'd team... then I want my typical paint discounts and practice time ...


Other than that ... I am just another guy for open play ....

[Skoad]

What do you mean by preferential?

"Tourney teams" sometimes get to play on their own field by themselves, or with another team. No problem with that, I mean how are they supposed to practice if they are playing a bunch of rec ballers...or if theres a tournament coming up on that field and they want to run some drills. They are going to be shelling out anywhere from 100-500 bucks to play in the tourney, they should have some alone time.

I'm not sure how they are treated at your fields, but at ours they still have to wait in line for airfills, paint, etc just like everyone else. They don't get price cuts, unless they are sponsered by the field and/or close friends with owners/employees. They can never kick people off a field because they want to use it.

Please cite some examples of what you see as "preferential treatment"

[teufelhunden]

Considering the amount of time tourney ballers dump in a day... we provide 5x the revenue for the fields than recballers do. That's where it stems from.... it's like going to a bakery everyday, you eventually get extras and freebees. Or like in Goodfellas, he just lets you go right to the front.

[abunkerer]

I think that the tourney players deserve a little preferential treatment, they bring business to the fields they represent.
Most players that have been in the game long enough have played in tournaments at some point, so... are you talking about the people who are currently playing in a tournament at the hosting field, or people who play in tournaments.

If there is a tournament going on then the players should definately get some perks like discounted paint, and a private airfill station is nice

[GoatBoy]

What do you mean by preferential?

"Tourney teams" sometimes get to play on their own field by themselves, or with another team. No problem with that, I mean how are they supposed to practice if they are playing a bunch of rec ballers...or if theres a tournament coming up on that field and they want to run some drills. They are going to be shelling out anywhere from 100-500 bucks to play in the tourney, they should have some alone time.

I'm not sure how they are treated at your fields, but at ours they still have to wait in line for airfills, paint, etc just like everyone else. They don't get price cuts, unless they are sponsered by the field and/or close friends with owners/employees. They can never kick people off a field because they want to use it.

Please cite some examples of what you see as "preferential treatment"

I wanted the question to initially be a general principle type deal, so saying preferential treatment pretty much covers ANY policy, stated or otherwise, which favors tournament players over non tournament players.

As far as your specific example, I was originally going to say I was fine with that tournament players doing that, since they're just a group like any other, and groups sometimes prefer to play within their own parties... But most fields only allow this if a group calls ahead of time and a ref is allocated for them. If a team shows up and a ref is allocated to them without prior arrangements, that is preferential treatment. I've seen instances of recballers wanting to separate, but they wouldn't let them because they didn't schedule ahead of time as a group. Now, if the tournament players go off and play an unreffed game, that is also preferential treatment, because if a bunch of recballers wanted to go off and play on their own, the answer is usually, "No, you have to be out there with refs." (And I already see what the counter-argument to this is going to be -- I don't recommend trying it because the flames will start up.) Again, this one doesn't bother me, but it actually does fall under the category. Nice catch, heh.


Personally, I don't really give a rat's butt about woods vs. tournament. It's just a really small minded argument in my opinion. There is one point though where the tournament foolishness really starts to rub me the wrong way...

The specific preferential treatment that I had in mind is the FPO/BYOP duality practice which seems to be pretty accepted. What some fields do is allow tournament players to come practice with their own paint. For recballers, it's still FPO. This is, without a doubt, preferential treatment. As stated in another thread, fields have operating costs and stuff which force them to jack up paint prices. So the recballers take the hit. I don't know about you, but as a recballer, I'm not particularly interested in subsidizing tournament players' costs. And it gets really weird when the tournament players start playing games with the recballers because they don't have enough people to run their own games, or just feel like playing with the n00bs.


teufelhunden: Your response, even if remotely accurate (I question the accuracy of the 5x multiplier; in fact, I question if the money is greater than recball income at all) seems to actually illustrate the inequity of BYOP for tournament teams. Tournament players spend their money at the field... on paint. If they no longer have to pay the jacked up paint prices, then guess what? They're no longer the high rollers.


As far as I can tell, the practice is simply unfair. And I'm not going to be a part of it. Either it's FPO for everyone, or it's BYOP for everyone.



abunkerer: oy...... I'm too tired to double my post size...

[CodeMA]

I dont mind getting treated diffrent, frankly I dont like being treated like a newbie, so I dont mind at all...

Rule and enforcment wise: Yes, most of the time it is more slack for tournament players, reffs generally arnt needed in most cases and arnt used...

Equipement use: We always bring our own markers, tanks, hoppers, appearl, etc, we know how to use them, were considered "experianced" and "knowledgeable" thus were allowed to do whatever with it... Feild equipment as well, namely when it comes to tank fills, atleast from personal experiance, Ive been allowed to fill my own tanks, told to use a 4500psi push button system on a 3k tank because " I think your smart enough to not over fill your tank and blow something up", and can generally push my way though the line faster then a line of walkons with rentals... reguardless if thats my intention

Paint: Ok, some of us have paint sponsors, feilds know this and generally respect that, for specific team pratices around here its 15 bucks for all day air, BYOP fee, and play... for non team pratice spefic play, there may be a 10 buck paint fee added to play fees, even if we are doing team pratice type things... should walkons with rentals and the sort be allowed this? That all depends on if the feild wants to make money and force the use of THEIR paint in THEIR equipment...

Feild play: Can we rip walkons away from there feild and play it? Some times, I dont personally pratice this, but have been a party to it, generally we wait, or play another feild while there playing that paticular feild... as long as there happy, Im happy, thats the way I see it, I can do what I need to do on any feild, let them have there fun...

[lamby]

As was said above, I think that a sponsored team should get special treatment. If that special treatment is BYOP or free field time or free enterance then so be it.

Alot of times we will do things like team practices at our local field where any team will be able to attend and get the cheaper rates on paint. This is good because teams have options that the average rec ballers do not. Like private fields and the like. If a field will not allow us to use BYOP we will normally load up the scuba tanks, the 3000 psi refill tanks, and set up a private event somewhere else. ALOT of teams have their own sup'' air fields and it does not take much to set one up.

Fields see this and they to help us out with reduced costs. They still make a profit on other things like air, food, water ect. If we are not there the field would normally not be used anyway.

The thing about demanding refs for us tourney guys is sorta mute if you add in the fact that many players on a sponsored team are regulars at the field and also will help with reffing if needed we are all on the same team (the field and the team)

I personally do not play that much rec ball, but when I do it is full cost and It does not bother me.

I dont think that tourney players should get a discount if they are playing rec, unless that was agreed upon in the negotiations between the team and the field (which can be the case)

And 1 note about all this hating that is going on. I started like most in the woods, got into speed ball on a cheezy pallet field, then moved to sup'air and hyperball. I don't like playing in the woods that much and do it only rarely (big games). I will still play some rec ball on the speedball field once and while when I get sick of killing other teams, or my own people in practice. I will never look down on another player for playing what he likes and I would never say that one style is better than the other..

But I will say, I can't stand playing in the woods with a bunch of camping, or non agreesive noobs, and feel alot more at home in the 50 doritto than at the "big oak tree on the left"

Oh just to add to this, just becasue you are playing on a sup'air field does not make you speedballer. There are tons of noobs that play rec style (camping, cowering, sneeking) on them too.

[Tyger]

I'm going off your thread title when I say this.

No, they don't DESERVE it. If they EARN it, then that's another story.

If I go to the arcade all the time, and I play Rush 2049 a lot, do I deserve to get to play that machine any time I want? No. I wait my turn, just like everyone else. Now if I'm the only one playing Rush 2049, all power to me. But I don't deserve to play when I want just because I've spent more money. Nor do I deserve discounted plays becasue I've spent more money than the guy who just walked into the arcade. I'm a customer, just like they are.

Same to paintball. Just because you play tournaments does not mean that you deserve preferential treatment. You are a customer, just like the other customers. Now if you do things for the field, you can EARN privlidges. I know many fields that sponsor teams. In exchange for reffing duties, cleanup, field maintenence and so on, the players can get discounted paint as well as a paycheck for their work. It's just good buisness.

-Tyger

[JrnyFan1985]

i just think that the tourney players and rec users should get equal treatment on the field. Most tourney players get to go out and play by themselves, let the recball people go, even if they are n00bs (but w/ a ref). i just get really tired of dum *** refs who are their to cater to the recballers needs, tell us "No. we can't play another game". Recballers should get the same treatment the tournament players do. We shouldn't have to pay a lot more and get less enjoyment outta the day.

[Lohman446]

Do you deserve, should you get preferential treatment because you are a tournament player? On those grounds soley absolutely not.

But, lets look at other conditions.

What if there is a sponsorship agreeement? If there is a formal sponsorship agreement than you should get whatever preferential treatment is in that agreement.

The other thing I see is around me there are very few cohesive tournament teams that stick together tournament after tournament. I can tell you who I am going to Chicago Open with, I can tell you I have played with them all several times and a couple times as a team. It is not the same team I will play the next tournament with just because. I like these guys, but there are about a dozen of us who bounce around teams and play wherever as time permits. We have great fun. Maybe we are just an informal 12 person team.

Back to the point of this - I get a better price on things than many of them do - and well I do not demand it I am grateful for it. We all, as a rule get a better price than walk-ons for various reasons but I feel we have earned it. I need to pause though before I go further, if I did not get a discount, it would not stop me from donig any of these things. I enjoy doing them and I happily consider the field owner a friend. First off, in a given day that I do not pull out my Phantom I can be expected to go through two cases of paint - just on quantity I could justify a discount. I get to the field early to help get things ready for the day, be it cleaning markers, rebuilding bunkers, whatever. When heavy tasks need done I bring equipment from the shop or my farm to help - be it teh bobcat or the crawler I provide and operate these things at no cost, the discounts I get are a favor returned. Should a project need done at the field, one of us will likely be doing it, again with no formal price negotiated, our discounts are a return favor. During the day should refs be needed, we will generally act as refs, some a lot more than I do. Should a marker need teched it is generally one of us that do it - so we have access to the store, should we walk behind the counters, should we pick up our own paint and avoid the line it is accepted. Should I walk in and grab merchandise and walk out, a poor example, it is accepted.

The other thing you have to look at is why discounts are given. Between the people I play with and myself, we have the resources to open up a nice field, I am sitting on 40 acres of the land that would be awesome for it (wooded, gully, creek) and could easily pickup another 60 connected. We have (I would like to think) the business ability, the resources (and many of us already run businesses), and the general know how to open up a decent field. We have discussed it before, and it boils down to one answer, we would never try to compete with the field we play at now, the owner showed us all what paintball was, and brought us to our level now. I think, part of our discount, may be an acknowledgement of the above.

Many people who don't play tuornaments likely fall into this same category - so I need to mention that I know this before I get flamed hard from this post


So, I need to answer this directly, NO a tournament player, or a rec player does not deserve preferential treatment - but when looking around you and seeing someone getting preferential treatment do not always assume its because they are some holier than tho tournament player, sometimes there are other reasons that are more valid.

Cue banana dude Webbie I love that smiley thank you for it.

[SlipknotX556]

No, they should be treated the same as everyone. Just because you tourny ball, that dosent mean you should get treated different.

[rx2]

Might it not also be, in certain cases, that they just know the staff very well. I know that at some of the fields around me, there is a difference in the level of treatment betwixt groups. However, upon closer inspection, it appears that even certain non-tourney players also get more respect and liberty. What is the common link, since even certain woods-ballers are getting better treatment? Well, quite simply, they go to the field every week, someitmes twice a week. They work up a relationship with the staff. They spend LOTS of money. Everyone is on a first name basis.

So, tourney players at my fields do have it better, sometimes. But, so do the rec guys who show up every week, and buy cases of paint, and know everyone on a first name basis. Of course, it is sometimes easier for the tourney guy to get his foot in the door, especially if some of the staff knows them from tournaments outside of the field. However, it seems that it you work at getting to know the people, you can sometimes enjoy the same frills, so to speak.

[barrel break]

I'm going off your thread title when I say this.

No, they don't DESERVE it. If they EARN it, then that's another story.

If I go to the arcade all the time, and I play Rush 2049 a lot, do I deserve to get to play that machine any time I want? No. I wait my turn, just like everyone else. Now if I'm the only one playing Rush 2049, all power to me. But I don't deserve to play when I want just because I've spent more money. Nor do I deserve discounted plays becasue I've spent more money than the guy who just walked into the arcade. I'm a customer, just like they are.

Same to paintball. Just because you play tournaments does not mean that you deserve preferential treatment. You are a customer, just like the other customers. Now if you do things for the field, you can EARN privlidges. I know many fields that sponsor teams. In exchange for reffing duties, cleanup, field maintenence and so on, the players can get discounted paint as well as a paycheck for their work. It's just good buisness.

-Tyger

amen