Jaws Drop at The Paintball Arena!

[Halliday]

uhhh yea. There was a rumor not to long ago that X valves where noticbly les reactive than older retros. any truth to that?

I want to find out too

[Blennidae]

With regards to people getting the wrong impression on mags since it is bouncing to function at that rate of fire. How is that any different than someone setting up thier electro with "illegal" settings and claiming how fast gun "X" is? Isn't the end result the same?

For me personally, I like to see all the videos of all the guns shooting fast. I am happy with the choices I have made regarding my guns. Seeing a different gun shoot fast means nothing to me. I myself can't shoot any guns near their limit, so its all moot.

[Jack & Coke]

There was a rumor not to long ago that X valves where noticbly les reactive than older retros. any truth to that?

I don't know if it's true for all cases, but I have noticed the same observations (x-valve vs retro) with my guns.

My Retro Valve always seems easier to maintain sweet spotting mode (reactive trigger), than my X-valves.

So I would agree with you, in my experience, the Retro valve is a little more "reactive", than the x-valve.

[Enemy]

no clue on retro over x...

one point i would like to make is that the trigger is mechanical its also not like the triggers those videos supplied..those triggers actuated on its own. the mags still takes a certain amount of force!!! now who cares if its legal or not its fun to see and fun to toy around with hell one of my friends plays his ule rt sweetspotting in games so its all good but sweetspotting is alot harder than just hitting the trigger and letting it run away!!! also lots of fields dont boot rts so whats it matter if its legal or not!!!

[Butterfingers]

The refs are pretty liberal at my feild... depending if they want to seperate into high tech and low tech classes. They allow RT's and somewhat illegal setups as long as they don't run away and fire by themselves. The firing MUST stop the nanosecond the trigger is released if it dosent its not allowed. Its more of a saftey issue of the gun firing on its own than assisted rates of fire.

Its always fun once in a while to own the guy who thinks hes so cool puts his DM4 to a ridiculously low debounce number then reply with a solid wall of RT thunder

Until rules change I agree that RT's are impractical for tourney use. However for rec and scenario ball as rules allow I now see where Tom is going with this. No gun ever that I have shot or used including any new high end electros set up SAFELY to bounce could produce a solid noninterupted stream of paint as easily as the RT can. Whereas other guns produce broken streams of varying speeds the RT always sings along like a well tuned F1 engine now chop free with LX.

[LeatherPants]

So what's the difference btwn that and some kid putting his Spyder on FA? The Pandora board on my Viking has a setting for FA but that's just wrong.

There are those who want to learn how to shoot fast and others who need their gun to shoot fast.

[Butterfingers]

Put either one on FA with the eyes on and its not nearly as fast.

Put either one on FA with the eyes off you have a wagner power sprayer.

The mag has the shortest stroke and one of the fastest bolt speeds which inherently makes it conducive to reliable feeding. I can get into the physycs but it has been discussed before.

[LeatherPants]

That's not my point. On FA a viking can still hit over 20+ bps with paint but where is the skill in that? Even a Spyder can hit close to that.

My point is what's the deal about showing off a marker that just bounces?

[Butterfingers]

Why Not?

I personally feel there is much more skill and thought to tactics, angles, and manuvering around the paintball feild than learning how to twitch your finger 20 or so times a second. With the ridicoulous trigger pulls and trigger "enhancing" logic available today its kinda moot.

[LeatherPants]

I've shot so many altered markers. Ramping Alias, ramping, shot storing DM4 you name it. One of the Alias i shot hit 16 bps over the chrono with me shooting one finger.

So you would be a propponent of dropping the regulations against these in tournies.

Given that the skill involved in moving through a field and knowing how to play each type of bunker is the most important, gun skills and snap shooting is also important. Where is the skill of just popping out of the bunker and holding your trigger down?

The thread about the NXL supposedly allowing ramping markers brought up such a stir on this forum. So I'm guessing you would be the first to agree with that supposed change.

The biggest thing brought up in that thead was that pros hit pros but when ramping markers find their way down to the "everyday play" that's when things get bad. Kids getting lit up etc.

So you're fine with a marker that just goes bounce to full auto playing in just a regular field against regular kids.

I could easily put my marker on "turbo" mode. Or better yet I could buy a DM4 or Alias and since I do have access to the chips and boards mentiond I could have a ramping marker. But I don't because I don't agree with them and I feel I shoot fast enough w/o them.

There are tons of people faster than me but if I'm able to pick up 4 completely different markers and walk them all to 17-18 bps then I deserve to say I can shoot that.

[shartley]

[Jack & Coke]

Why Not?

I personally feel there is much more skill and thought to tactics, angles, and manuvering around the paintball feild than learning how to twitch your finger 20 or so times a second. With the ridicoulous trigger pulls and trigger "enhancing" logic available today its kinda moot.

Interesting...

I kinda agree :)

So if someone is considered a "skilled" paintball player, does if mean his "skills" are more respresented by his ability to:

- shoot fast (i.e. walk the trigger @ 15-18 bps)

or

- hit what he's shooting at, move when he's suppossed move, communicate well, etc.

The fact that people are concerned about "noobs" shooting Spyders fast is really silly .

[RRfireblade]

Interesting...

I kinda agree :)

So if someone is considered a "skilled" paintball player, does if mean his "skills" are more respresented by his ability to:

- shoot fast (i.e. walk the trigger @ 15-18 bps)

or

- hit what he's shooting at, move when he's suppossed move, communicate well, etc.

And I've always stood by the opinion that ROF doesn't make the player however.....

If said player has great field skills AND has the ability to shoot very fast and accurately,that player will have an edge over most others who have only one of those traits.The simple fact,believe it or not, is that in the vast majority of paintball situations a higher ROF will raise your chances of # balls on an oponent and the percentage of those balls broken. And that applies to ALL types of play,not only including,but especially woods ball.

"Skill" applies to all aspects of the sport including the ability to fire your marker quickly and accurately.If you can't keep up with the competition,you ARE going in handicapped with all other things being equal.....like it or not.

[LeatherPants]

Also your ability to shoot fast allows you to push your opponent back in to his bunker so you can move.

All good front players know this. A back player can only push so many people in for a short period of time especially if the other team is good. A front play should also know how to push and create opportunities.

[Butterfingers]

This is a real interesting debate.

I was thinking to myself the other day after I came back from the paintball arena.

Why is it that a 14 year old kid with a brand spanking new shocker that his parents got for him gets touted as a better player? At most he has probably played ONCE.

I see this kid out on the feild taking out everybody else becuse all he is doing is slinging paint all over the place while people are shooting back at him with rental tippmanns. On two occassions he shot his OWN players out including myself.

You know what his dad with the DM4 said to us... oh im sorry this was his first time playing!

On the other hand I see this guy must be 16 or 17 years old with a model 98 that he bought himself shooting at less than HALF the rate of fire but he finds himself serously outgunned by sombody who has more disposable income than him. He was a novice but he knew what he was doing. He had been playing for a little while. Gee if this guy had as much firepower he would have mowed this other kid down before he had time to shoot one of his own plaers in the back...

You know how to solve ALL these problems:

Saftey: Leagalize full auto at a preset ROF or enhanced fire such as RT so there is no cheating with unsafe uncontrollable bounce. You release the trigger thats it... it stops.

Fairness of play: same... a tippmann on full auto or RT can exceed 15 bps. Enough for a player with better skill to take out a player with better equipment.

Just my 2 cents...