Jaws Drop at The Paintball Arena!

[LeatherPants]

First off don't hate on someone who can afford to play and buy his kid the a good marker.

I DO agree with you that it's not the marker that makes the player. One of my friends who was on Bushwhacker's Am team still likes to play with his mechanical cocker once in awhile. He still does well with it. But he does need the speed of his eblade to seirously move up the field better.


I do not see FA as an answer. One example is bunkering. On a regular marker you can choose to shoot 1-10 balls at the guy. Walking whatever. I takes effort to shoot that many. NOW with a FA marker some guy is just going to come around the bunker holding the trigger. It will be ugly. FA is just easier to hurt some kid.

[Butterfingers]

Im not trying to hate on the person that has money to play. Its just an example of how superior equipment can seriously offset superior skill on the playing field.

Perhaps there should be classes of markers like there are classes of racing. This way people can shoot whatever and play however they want. It also evens up the playing feild since each class has equipment with similar capabilities.

[LeatherPants]

Im not trying to hate on the person that has money to play. Its just an example of how superior equipment can seriously offset superior skill on the playing field.

Perhaps there should be classes of markers like there are classes of racing. This way people can shoot whatever and play however they want. It also evens up the playing feild since each class has equipment with similar capabilities.

Well locally fields tend to seperate walk-on groups. Ususally they look at the marker and say "uh yea kid with the Dynasty Shocker you're in advance group. Tippman kid, novice." Now players can choose to go to the advanced group and it does suck for the newbie kid with the nice marker but hey that's life too.

Then again superior skill against superior equipment shouldn't matter that much since mose times the kids don't really know how to use their marker to its potential.

[ilikePB]

Then again superior skill against superior equipment shouldn't matter that much since mose times the kids don't really know how to use their marker to its potential.

Agreed.

[Butterfingers]

Its a good start. But I think there should be some kind of widely recognized structure of classification.

For example, the SCCA has many classes for sports car racing. A chevy corvette races in a diffrent class than a geo metro. By seperating equipment levels everybody has a chance to race and be competitve regardless of equipment. What it boils down to is driver skill in a particular class.

This way everybody is in an even playing feild and it is conducive to the growth of the sport because sombody who wants to try paintball and be competitive can start with a brass eagle talon and play a beginer pump class for example.

Each tier of classification would have its own set of rules regarding equipment.

This way EVERYBODY is happy:

The players are happy. The beginner that has no money CAN be competitive with others in the same class. The more experience better funded player can choose what class he wants to be in given his optimal skill set and equipment.

Gun manufacturers are happy. Class divisions allows ALL guns to be used to thier full potential and will not force features to be excluded from play.

Paint companies are happy: The upper classes will sling paint faster than Michael Moore can sling bovine fecal matter.

[LeatherPants]

I see what you're driving at and given you want this for everyday fields and rec play. Problem is that there will not be enough players. If you start dividing up people some days you'll have beginner group with 5 people and a advanced with 3.

There are already divisions in the tournament scene.

[RRfireblade]

The refs are pretty liberal at my feild... depending if they want to seperate into high tech and low tech classes. They allow RT's and somewhat illegal setups as long as they don't run away and fire by themselves.

Why is it that a 14 year old kid with a brand spanking new shocker that his parents got for him gets touted as a better player? At most he has probably played ONCE.

Well that's your problem right there. If your field actually enforced the rules and guidlines the already exist,you wouldn't have some 1st time player ABLE to sling paint like that with a legally set up gun.

Leagalize full auto at a preset ROF or enhanced fire such as RT so there is no cheating with unsafe uncontrollable bounce. You release the trigger thats it... it stops.

So then your answer to that is to have everybody sling paint regardless of skill level.

Interesting.....

[Jack & Coke]

So then your answer to that is to have everybody sling paint regardless of skill level.

I still think its silly for people to equate "skill level" with their ability to "sling paint".

Especially with today's high end hair trigger electros. Even more ridiculous when you factor in "debounce" features.

[RRfireblade]

I still think its silly for people to equate "skill level" with their ability to "sling paint".

Especially with today's high end hair trigger electros. Even more ridiculous when you factor in "debounce" features.

If your field actually enforced the rules and guidlines the already exist,you wouldn't have some 1st time player ABLE to sling paint like that with a legally set up gun.

"Legally" as I said,as in legally set up semi only.

And of 'course it's a skill to shoot 17-20bps on a 'legally' set up gun, can you do it by simply walking a trigger? (not talking about 'raking' or other less than legal methods)

How many people out there do you think can while running and playing on the field?

How many people out there do you think can while shooting form thier off hand?

How many people out there do you think can.....at all?

Now you know why 'debounce' and RT triggers are so popular. :)

Shooting skills ARE skills despite those who don't have any legally actually think.

Jay.

[LeatherPants]

I agree. It took me awhile to be able to walk the trigger while running up the break. It's so easy for someone to hold the trigger in FA and run. Try running off the break while walking the trigger at a high rof AND holding the marker in the lane.

Being able to shoot fast accuratly IS a skill. Me being a backplayer it's extremely important and some thing that I would practice and run drills for.

Fireblade brought up another good point that I forgot about. Off hand shooting. That's another skill that FA will just take away. How many of you can walk the same speed on both hands. I can at a stand still but I'm still trying to work on my off hand while running. It takes practice.

Given some people put lots of bounce on their markers. Sadly that's something we have to live with but still FA is not an answer. It's just a cop-out for people who can't shoot fast or don't have a marker they can put bounce on. If you can't shoot that fast too friggin bad llive with it.

[Skoad]

I can't shoot with my left hand for beans.

[Lurker27]

Spyders have more bolt open time than mags, especially with lighter internals.

That said, legalizing everythig is just silly. You're taking out the ability to shoot fast as a skill. And, for insurance purposes, it's a nightmare to have everyone shooting 30bps. A modified A5 with a full auto frame could probably outstrip all others based on its cyclone feed system.

But here's the real reason it won't happen: it's easy to make a gun that shoots a fast full auto. Hell, rig up an astable 555 on any marker and you've got it. I don't think the paintballing industry is really going to accept having $200 guns shoot exactly as fast as the $1200 guns. It's all about money.

The answer, as someone stated earlier, is to be far harsher on fast guns. if one is spotted bouncing or adding shots, even if the player denies it, pull hi for the game and have a look at the marker.

Right now it's low risk, medium is reward (most cheater guns could be putting out an honest 15bps with a competent person behind it, without the enhancements)...change the risk to high, and it'll go away quick....the NPPL is doing the right thing with the robot, they jsut need to unclamp the markers to factor in rampign bounce as well as electronically added shots.

[LeatherPants]

Sadly the NPPL robot does not catch all the ramping boards. I think I read an Article in Paintball.com that stated that they still cannot catch everything.

There really need to be harsher penalties. I believe the recent PSP in LA a team was found with runaway markers. They were booted from the tourney. More things like this need to happen.

Now as far as rec balling or everyday play it's even harder. No field wants to turn away money. No field wants to make it difficult for players to come and shoot paint.

It's a pain.

[RRfireblade]

I agree. It took me awhile to be able to walk the trigger while running up the break. It's so easy for someone to hold the trigger in FA and run. Try running off the break while walking the trigger at a high rof AND holding the marker in the lane.

Being able to shoot fast accuratly IS a skill. Me being a backplayer it's extremely important and some thing that I would practice and run drills for.

Fireblade brought up another good point that I forgot about. Off hand shooting. That's another skill that FA will just take away. How many of you can walk the same speed on both hands. I can at a stand still but I'm still trying to work on my off hand while running. It takes practice.

Given some people put lots of bounce on their markers. Sadly that's something we have to live with but still FA is not an answer. It's just a cop-out for people who can't shoot fast or don't have a marker they can put bounce on. If you can't shoot that fast too friggin bad llive with it.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. For 2 hours last Saturday,that's all we did.Drilling breaks shooting on the run and breaking in both directions,shooting with the correct hand for the direction.If you don't think that takes skill,laying paint @15bps+ ON TARGET while on the move and with either hand,your dead wrong.

That's what I hate the most about these issues concerning 'legal' setups. Some of us work really hard at all aspects of the game and unfortunately,due to the possesion of 'Morals' refuse to go down that road.

What we need is the equivillent of 'natural' body building events,or like 'stock' and 'modified' classes but I really doubt anything llike that will happen so.....

Well...enuff ranting............

[Skoad]

Here's a video of a gun with some "hidden" cheating, usually gives refs a hard time and can't detect it.

http://web.umr.edu/~sjjgfd/Angel.wmv

end of the video will show ya. It can be set up for just about any bps until it starts to bounce.